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The myth of hybridization in the Russian Dwarf Hamster by a professional research scientist (long read)


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#1 xanderxue

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Posted 12 August 2022 - 06:52 AM

Hello everyone,

 

Before delving into the topic, I want to give an introduction and some background information to lend some credence to this post. I started off with Campbell hamsters in the mid-90s when I was about 9, had a Syrian as well as another Campbell (and chinchilla) when I was a teenager, and largely expanded with a (perhaps) Winter White as well as several Roborovskis/Syrians (plus a couple mice and another chinchilla) in college. My hamster keeping took a giant pause throughout my 20s and much of my 30s (hence the glaring omission of Chinese hamsters, which I do not think were even in the US then, but I also grew up in CA, where it seems they're still illegal to this day) until a couple weeks ago when, due to my children's increasing interest in hamster videos, I decided to get a pair of Winter Whites (always my favorites given their absolute mythical status in the US during the 90s/aughts). This has led to my refamiliarizing with the hamster community and learning modern perspectives on hamster husbandry practices.

 

All of this is to say that I have a fairly extensive and diverse experience that I think offers a unique perspective to the hamster community. More important though (at least for the sake of this post) is my career path. I am a professionally trained (i.e. doctoral degree) population geneticist who is currently employed at an esteemed research institution and has a healthy publication record in peer-reviewed journals regarding introgression (i.e. the process of hybridization). At this point, I want to note that my username is my real name; you can Google me (I have a pretty unique name) or peruse my papers on Google Scholar (though without academic credentials, some are behind paywalls). The reason I'm committing this cardinal sin of violating my Internet anonymity is because I hope that my words, backed by my credentials, can lead to increased widespread education of this group of animals that I have a life-long integral passion for.

 

So first, it is oft-repeated that "you can never breed out the hybrid lineage". From a purely mathematical, basic theoretical point of view, this is patently false. There was a college upper division biology course that I taught where my mentor would emphasize that there is a strong distinction between genealogy and genetics, namely that just because someone is your ancestor (genealogy), it doesn't mean you share any genetic information. The reason for this is the finite amount of genetic information that is inherited each generation, which is particularly exacerbated by the genomic phenomena of linkage disequilibrium. Another way to think of this is that DNA is not infinitesimally divisible, similar to the concept of a half-life with radioactive decay. To put it simply, you half the amount of genes passed down each generation, and after some generations, the contribution of any one particular ancestor is highly likely to be lost entirely in any one descendant. This process is especially quick in hamsters with their ~0.5 year generation time vs. humans and their 25 year generation time. What this means is that you tend to have a relatively high relation to a very small proportion of your ancestors, with absolutely no genetic relation (despite a genealogical one) to the vast majority of your ancestors. Thus, let's say there is just one Winter White ancestor 10 generations ago; this degree of relation is probably small enough that it's quite plausible that many of the descendants would have absolutely zero Winter White ancestry.

 

Now, this argument can be rather pedantic considering that most people probably feel that there are quite a few Campbell individuals involved in the non-pedigreed White White lineage and vice versa. However, that brings up another well-spread idea that is highly likely a myth: "purebred" Campbell/White White individuals are assured due to a pedigree, ideally one that traces to wild caught individuals, because hybrids do not occur in the wild. Here's the real truth to the matter, and this goes to the heart of several very active research topics in the field of population genetics, ecology, and evolutionary biology (namely introgression/hybridization, population structure, speciation, species concepts, and even species distributions): hybrids occur all the time in nature, and are perhaps even critical to the perseverance of a species in certain cases. This has been well supported to have even occurred in us, anatomically modern humans, and there is growing evidence suggesting it has actually happened several times in our history.

 

A possible counterargument to this that I've seen many times is that Campbells and Winter Whites do not co-occur naturally. I have not seen anything in the literature supporting this, and in fact, quite the contrary. There is not much research into wild hamster populations, especially currently, but what little there is seems to suggest that there is indeed co-occurrence. Granted, there are noted behavioral differences, but that's why there is any speciation at all; hybridization would indeed be rather uncommon, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have a drastic impact overall on populations. Also, species distributions are not easily conjured; unless a species distribution is statistically modelled (and even this has substantial limitations), it is still largely a guess, and a weak one at that without a lot of active naturalist observations and/or active biogeographic research. The native regions for these species are pretty sparsely populated by people, so I highly doubt anyone really knows their true distributions, thus overlap can actually be quite high. I'll admit that I cannot definitively say anything about naturally occurring hybridization in these species, and that my literature search was rather cursory, but as someone who has done a large amount of research in this field, it would be a very poor bet to say that natural hybrids do not occur.

 

Moreover, the very act of domestication, despite any argument of whether hamsters are "truly" domesticated, already highly diverges the "pet population" of each hamster species significantly from their naturally occurring brethren, especially without additional contributions of wild individuals. This is perhaps exacerbated if collection occurred within a particular geographic region, though conversely, collecting across the range then results in another form of introgression, so either way, the establishment of a captive population pokes holes into the idea of a "purebreed" as far as it relates to natural populations. On a related note, the pressures of artificial selection, e.g. preferring certain colors or tame behaviors, drastically and very quickly changes a population, and quite possibly even more so than so-called hybrids (depending on the degree of hybridization naturally versus in captivity). Additionally, the health consequences of this are quite possibly much more detrimental than hybridization as well; while there is research that supports inbreeding to be perhaps not as detrimental as we previously thought, the ill effects of domestication are still pretty prevalent, for example the ailments that commonly affect nearly every breed of purebred dogs. Ethical breeders may argue that they have stringent practices in place to discourage genetic disorders, and I'm not denying that those efforts are important, but at the end of the day, it's still nowhere to the scale of the genetic diversity that occurs in the wild. As a result, I would posit that, while not intentional, it is perhaps a bit hypocritical to so harshly demonize hybridization while simultaneously engage in breeding for specific traits (especially new color mutations).

 

Another aspect to consider is hybrid vitality. There are different things being said, so I'll address the two extreme positions. One extreme is that without "proper breeding standards", hybrids will run amok and degrade both species. If this were indeed the case, then first off, this would be highly suggestive that hybridization probably does occur to a high degree in the wild, thus "purebreeds" just simply don't exist anyway, as aforementioned. Second off, while hybrids certainly can lead to poor quality individuals, it can also instead lead to exceptional individuals (or at least individual beneficial traits) and thus be an important process for fitness and speciation, a phenomena sometimes referred to as hybrid vigor (which might perhaps be especially important for the relatively genetically homogeneous captive populations). I couldn't say whether this occurs to any degree in the two Russian Dwarf species, but it's certainly worth considering. The other extreme notion, which kind of runs contrary to the previous, is that hybrids are extremely unfit (and this is sometimes coupled with the argument that hybrids do not occur naturally), in particular inciting poor health conditions (e.g. bringing diabetes into Winter Whites, and I once read that supposedly there is a genetic disorder going the other way into Campbells too, but I forgot what). If this were true (which does not seem to necessarily be the case due to many known cases of viable F1 hybrids), then the two species would naturally be kept fairly "pure" anyway through natural selection. Specifically, selective pressures against hybrids with poorly adaptive traits (which by the way, is not mutually exclusive to having beneficial traits) prevent rampant hybridization to the point of degrading species boundaries, which is in fact a naturally occurring process called reinforcement (though this is a bit of a controversial hypothesis). Let's now address the big elephant in the room: large-scale commercial hamster mills supplying the big chains and even independent shops, what might be called the pet industrial complex, which let's face it, is 99.9% of all captive hamsters at this point and really dictate what is the mainstream Campbell vs. Winter White. Sure, one could say this industrial complex doesn't care and will just keep pumping out terrible quality individuals without a care for species identity. While that's certainly plausible, there's a few considerations. One, from what I can tell, the same supplier(s) to the stores are the same ones to scientific laboratories (including medical ones), and that creates a stricter control on keeping lines "pure" (though it's unclear if hamsters are still used in labs in the US). If hybrids were truly in such terrible condition, I think the combined reception from both the pet and lab consumers would force them to at the very least not just haphazardly mix different species. At the end of the day, it's the almighty dollar that speaks, and that requires at least a modicum of scrutiny and care, even if it's not to your or my standards. Plus, I read that fecundity decreases in hybrid pairings, further discouraging the practice. Also, considering that stores indeed identify a difference between the species nowadays, that does suggest there are separate lines being kept, thus there doesn't seem to be an incentive to integrating them for no reason.

 

So what does this all mean? First, I have virtually no social media presence, and am not a member of any other forums (despite having many other hobbies and interests), but I was strongly motivated to actively join the online hamster community because I was saddened to see that "hamstering" seems to have largely wilted since my childhood/young adult days. I think this is largely due to certain gatekeeping behaviors regarding breeding and husbandry (which I would like to comment further in the future if there is a warm reception here), and some of that stems from the idea of pedigrees, to which this hybrid issue is germane. So my goal here was to correct some misinformation about the Russian Dwarfs and the perception of hybridizing, and have prospective dwarf hamster keepers instead rely on the morphological differences between the two species. In other words, if an individual exhibits all of the traits associated with the species label s/he was given, then that effectively is the correct species (and actually how field biologists would ID them). In particular, I find that the most reliable trait is the thick black ventral striping with minimal/zero browning coupled with a diamond-ish black patch on the forehead in the Winter Whites (only works well with agouti/sapphire morphs); the next indicator for Winter Whites is a skull/face shape that I personally think more resembles the Chinese hamster (people fixate on the nose, but I find that can be difficult sometimes, especially depending on the angle; I would say looking straight in their eyes, they have kind of a more triangular shape due to that nose dropoff, whereas the triangular shape cited with the Campbell is more from the bird's eye view; the Campbells seem to often have puffy noses, maybe a wider skull, and perhaps more angled eyes; the ear diagnostic is difficult based purely on size, but I noticed that the Winter White's ears will often crinkle, which I think is more the reason for the visual effect of appearing smaller; and finally, Campbells will usually have those "buffed out" shoulders giving an hourglass figure, whereas Winter Whites look pretty linear, again more resembling a Chinese hamster, but without the tail and a shorter length). Only when these traits are very mixed, or if you see distinctively Winter White traits on a Campbell morph (though contrary to popular opinion in the US, it seems there are certainly native Winter White morphs/patterns beyond the "classic 3", plus you never know what may be a new mutation) would I say using the term "hybrid" is needed (and like with dogs, if one phenotype is still much more dominant, the phrasing "Winter White X" or "Campbell X" I think is appropriate). I'll also add that the somewhat popular conception that Campbells are more social seems to be backed by at least one scientific paper, which found that biparental care is obligatory in Campbells but facultative, i.e. optional, in Winter Whites. Moreover, I remember in the early aughts, it was a pretty popular notion that Winter Whites were friendlier and less likely to bite; no one seems to be saying this now, perhaps it's been completely debunked, and I really have no standing on this, but I'd be interested if this actually had truth to it, as my personal anecdotal experience is consistent with this observation. Anyway, these behavioral traits are by no means diagnostic, but thought I'd share.

 

I hope this long read has been informative to at least some, and I'm looking forward to some conversation over it. Please feel free to challenge or debate any points, I welcome a healthy discussion regarding this matter, and I know some things really fly in the face of a lot of the conventional thought out there, so I want to respectfully address other points of view.


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#2 daisy~

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Posted 12 August 2022 - 07:22 AM

Wow, it's not often we get a post of this quality and depth here! Thanks for taking the time to post it.

Moreover, I remember in the early aughts, it was a pretty popular notion that Winter Whites were friendlier and less likely to bite; no one seems to be saying this now, perhaps it's been completely debunked, and I really have no standing on this, but I'd be interested if this actually had truth to it, as my personal anecdotal experience is consistent with this observation. Anyway, these behavioral traits are by no means diagnostic, but thought I'd share


Based on my limited experience, I would tentatively say there might be some truth to this. Cage aggression, and real aggression in general, seems to be more common in the Campbell-resembling Russian dwarfs. I suspect cage aggression probably is a Campbells trait.

Nowadays I do often see people expressing a view along the lines of temperament/personality (although these are two different things really) is all down to the individual and not the species, but I think species has a huge impact on temperament. Female Syrians to me have a characteristic temperament, with the odd exception of course. Last year I was on the phone with someone whose female Syrian I was going to look after. She was trying to find the words to describe this hamster (she tried "confident", but that didn't quite cover it), and I was sitting there thinking "I know exactly what you're trying to describe" because many female Syrians just have this same manner about them! Male Syrians also have a characteristic temperament. So do Robos and Russian dwarfs.

Most Russian dwarfs do also fit relatively well into either a Winter White or Campbell classification even if they're presumed hybrids. They might be the "wrong" colour sometimes for the species, but, the ones with diamonds on the head always have the Winter White ears, for example, in my experience. So perhaps it isn't accurate to view hybrids simply as a bundle of randomly mixed genes from both species, as it's often presented.
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#3 Kikya

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Posted 12 August 2022 - 08:11 AM

Hello everyone,

 

I hope this long read has been informative to at least some, and I'm looking forward to some conversation over it. Please feel free to challenge or debate any points, I welcome a healthy discussion regarding this matter, and I know some things really fly in the face of a lot of the conventional thought out there, so I want to respectfully address other points of view.

I think you'll find it's unlikely you'll find as much of a challenge here as most of the people are children. But I think it's fantastic that you posted and I look forward to hearing your insights. The large number of adults and actual breeders seem to have dwindled down on this site. Daisy and I are a couple of exceptions to the general rule. I admit I did think the idea that there couldn't be purebreed dwarf hamsters seemed odd to me. Unfortunately, with the pets stores marking any hamster with a stupid name like "black bear" hamster or "sunfire" does make it difficult to think they know what they are talking about lol. Though whose to say if it's the pet store calling them that or the breeder.

 

I agree with you about the difference in genealogy and genetics. As well as the hybrids not necessarily meaning worse genetics. As we see in purebreed dogs, many times the lack of diversity in genetics can cause all kinds of health issues vs mutts are often more robust.

 

Just from my personal experience and reading others, I do feel like Campbell's Dwarves are much more aggressive but because everyone assumes that every dwarf hamster is a hybrid, people screech about not making generalization because "their dwarf" hamster is so nice lol. I've yet to meet a Campbell's dwarf that didn't want to bite my finger off and they all had prominent Campbell's characteristics, dorsal stripe, hour glass shape, etc. Maybe one of these days, I'll find a Winter White to adopt haha

 

I am curious what your point of view would be on why it seems (and for while people were tracking this anecdotal information on this site) that overall the hamster populations average lifespans in captivity seem much shorter than when I was a kid. Now, it seems a rarity that Syrian hamsters for example live longer than 2-3 years but I had multiple hamsters as a child that lived to 4 years old. Most people start worrying about hamster illness and health at age 1 and very happy when they make it to 2 years of age. This is in spite of the fact hamster care is arguably better than it was when I was a child. Very little bedding was provided, mesh wheels, smaller enclosures, very limited diets.

 

Also, congrats on your new additions. Are you keeping them together or separate? and what kind of cage did you get?


Edited by Kikya, 12 August 2022 - 08:26 AM.

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#4 Tater

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Posted 12 August 2022 - 10:05 AM

I hope this long read has been informative to at least some, and I'm looking forward to some conversation over it. Please feel free to challenge or debate any points, I welcome a healthy discussion regarding this matter, and I know some things really fly in the face of a lot of the conventional thought out there, so I want to respectfully address other points of view.

While I don't have anything to comment (largely due to the fact I'm not nearly educated enough to make any :p), I appreciated you posting this! It was a very interesting and informative read~


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#5 lil BIG dwarf

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Posted 13 August 2022 - 09:43 AM

I agree with Tater. 86% of this went in one ear and out the other, but I look forward to reading more :)
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#6 Lillias

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Posted 13 August 2022 - 03:47 PM

This is a very interesting and informative post. You do make a good point about there being a limited number of genes and how that limits the transmission of genes.

*now googling how many chromosomes hamsters have* (Syrian 44, Chinese 22, RCD & WW 28, robos 34 - per a quick search, so take these numbers with a grain of salt)

 

Glaucoma is the disease that is associated with Winter Whites, but most dwarfs get through life with neither diabetes nor glaucoma.

 

Some hamster studies are coming from US universities, so I would say that yes, some American labs still use hamsters as test subjects. I don't know how widespread this is or how intertwined the lab hamster supply chain is with the pet supply chain. There do seem to be mills with lower standards. Hamster owners from one region of the US (I can't remember which) have been noticing an increase in hydro Syrian hamsters.


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#7 nebit

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Posted 13 August 2022 - 03:56 PM

 So my goal here was to correct some misinformation about the Russian Dwarfs and the perception of hybridizing, and have prospective dwarf hamster keepers instead rely on the morphological differences between the two species. In other words, if an individual exhibits all of the traits associated with the species label s/he was given, then that effectively is the correct species (and actually how field biologists would ID them)

I've been arguing for this approach for awhile. While some individuals do display clear hybrid characteristics, many very strongly resemble one species or the other. I think we can acknowledge that we can't know the ancestry for sure, and that hybrids are common in he pet trade while still acknowledging that this particular hamster looks very strongly Winter White.

 

 

 

Moreover, I remember in the early aughts, it was a pretty popular notion that Winter Whites were friendlier and less likely to bite; no one seems to be saying this now, perhaps it's been completely debunked, and I really have no standing on this, but I'd be interested if this actually had truth to it, as my personal anecdotal experience is consistent with this observation.

I do agree with Daisy that cage aggression is probably very much an RCD trait, and thus responsible for this idea, but it also struck me that in the early aughts, it was also a popular notion that black syrian hamsters were larger, friendlier, more docile, and less prone to biting. In that case, while those thing WERE true (but no longer are), it was because the color black did not exist in Mill lines until it was imported to this country from show lines- and show hamsters, of any color, are larger, friendlier, more docile, and less prone to biting. As they became fully integrated into the American mill stock, this became less likely to be true, and black Syrians today resemble all other Mill-line hamsters- smaller, flightier, thinner, shorter coats in the long hairs, and more prone to biting.
 

 

 Also, considering that stores indeed identify a difference between the species nowadays, that does suggest there are separate lines being kept, thus there doesn't seem to be an incentive to integrating them for no reason.

Perhaps you have different suppliers in California than where I'm at, but here, while the pet stores do put up labels purporting to identify the dwarf held within, they mean almost nothing. I've seen clear RCDs labeled as WWs and vice versa. Some labels don't even make sense "Dwarf Hamster vs "Russian Dwarf Hamster" vs "Winter White" vs "Djungarian Hamster" all in the same store, but labelled distinctly. Having worked in a chain pet store and being responsible for receiving new hamsters into the store, albeit some 20 years ago now, I can tell you they all came to us from the supplier that way. There were also often mislabeling of things like sex, which you would think they would have a strong incentive to keep straight for lab supply.


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#8 xanderxue

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Posted 14 August 2022 - 05:19 AM

Wow, it's not often we get a post of this quality and depth here! Thanks for taking the time to post it.

 

While I don't have anything to comment (largely due to the fact I'm not nearly educated enough to make any :p), I appreciated you posting this! It was a very interesting and informative read~

 

I agree with Tater. 86% of this went in one ear and out the other, but I look forward to reading more  :)

 

Thank you for the kind words! I wanted the initial posting to be a tad bit more technical and (hopefully) serve as a resource for others, but please feel free to ask any questions if there's something unclear and I'll aim for a more casual tone in replying.

 

Based on my limited experience, I would tentatively say there might be some truth to this. Cage aggression, and real aggression in general, seems to be more common in the Campbell-resembling Russian dwarfs. I suspect cage aggression probably is a Campbells trait.

Nowadays I do often see people expressing a view along the lines of temperament/personality (although these are two different things really) is all down to the individual and not the species, but I think species has a huge impact on temperament. Female Syrians to me have a characteristic temperament, with the odd exception of course. Last year I was on the phone with someone whose female Syrian I was going to look after. She was trying to find the words to describe this hamster (she tried "confident", but that didn't quite cover it), and I was sitting there thinking "I know exactly what you're trying to describe" because many female Syrians just have this same manner about them! Male Syrians also have a characteristic temperament. So do Robos and Russian dwarfs.

 

Just from my personal experience and reading others, I do feel like Campbell's Dwarves are much more aggressive but because everyone assumes that every dwarf hamster is a hybrid, people screech about not making generalization because "their dwarf" hamster is so nice lol. I've yet to meet a Campbell's dwarf that didn't want to bite my finger off and they all had prominent Campbell's characteristics, dorsal stripe, hour glass shape, etc. Maybe one of these days, I'll find a Winter White to adopt haha

 

So I had come across Martin Braak's website the other day (discovered via this forum in fact, and actually one of the factors that encouraged me to sign up), but gave it a closer look after my post; lo and behold, there is a pretty principled explanation given to this behavioral difference, which lends a lot of support to this observation beyond anecdotal evidence (Differences between Campbelli and Russian dwarf hamster (dwerghamster.nl); Google translation seems to do a pretty good job here, at least based on intelligibility, can't speak Dutch myself). Furthermore, this is by far the most in-depth, disciplined, and just simply best piece yet I've seen on distinguishing Campbell/WWs; having said that, I stand by what I said before as the easiest diagnostic characteristics (though the hair texture, what I'd say is somewhat matting in the Campbells, and agouti color differences are features that did not really occur to me beforehand and I would say are also pretty good indicators). As they were decades ago, the European hamster fancy seems to be much more developed than here in North America, at least is my perception as I've reacquainted myself with modern hamster-ing (I noticed the "colour" spelling in daisy's post, so I'm guessing daisy could say first-hand the strength of at least the UK community compared to here over the pond?).

 

Regarding the male-female behavioral difference, I've seen that info much more widely disseminated, and I would have to say my experience certainly doesn't contradict it, plus it makes biological sense. Also, given the substantial increase in male active parenting for the Campbells, that might also contribute to their aggression.

 

I think the need for others to say it depends on the individual is that, as is often the case, people confuse averages with variance; sure, individual differences certainly exist, and may lead to extreme exceptions, but it's hard to dispute that species (even between two closely related ones as these), or even biological sex, has a very large impact on temperament (on a heritable level at least, environmental effects like taming certainly has a significant influence).

 

Most Russian dwarfs do also fit relatively well into either a Winter White or Campbell classification even if they're presumed hybrids. They might be the "wrong" colour sometimes for the species, but, the ones with diamonds on the head always have the Winter White ears, for example, in my experience. So perhaps it isn't accurate to view hybrids simply as a bundle of randomly mixed genes from both species, as it's often presented.

 

I agree with you about the difference in genealogy and genetics. As well as the hybrids not necessarily meaning worse genetics. As we see in purebreed dogs, many times the lack of diversity in genetics can cause all kinds of health issues vs mutts are often more robust.

 

I'm glad to see that there are other personal observations that are consistent with my post 😁.

 

I think you'll find it's unlikely you'll find as much of a challenge here as most of the people are children. But I think it's fantastic that you posted and I look forward to hearing your insights. The large number of adults and actual breeders seem to have dwindled down on this site. Daisy and I are a couple of exceptions to the general rule. I admit I did think the idea that there couldn't be purebreed dwarf hamsters seemed odd to me. Unfortunately, with the pets stores marking any hamster with a stupid name like "black bear" hamster or "sunfire" does make it difficult to think they know what they are talking about lol. Though whose to say if it's the pet store calling them that or the breeder.

 

Well, if those children are anything like me as a child, there can certainly still be strong opinions directed my way 😆.

 

Thank for the kind words, I'm excited to offer what is hopefully insight, haha!

 

I definitely noticed a decrease, hence my motivation for this as well as my next two posts (I suppose I have a trilogy planned 😅). Obviously it won't happen overnight, but it's my (perhaps foolhardy) hope that maybe I can offer a perspective that'll encourage more growth in the community. Though I have to say, I've read discussions here that formed a fairly convincing argument that hamsters are really not the most pleasant companion, and couple that with increasing small animal choices in the last several years, that's probably a contributing factor that cannot be changed 🙁.

 

To be fair, names are just names, and ethical/association-affiliated breeders come up with their own labels all of the time. I actually quite like Sunfire, it's no more or less valid than Mandarin or pudding, and sounds the coolest to me. I may be wrong, but from what I remember way back when, I think Black Bear was actually coined by the hobby breeder who discovered it? At least back in the day, it was viewed as a pretty respected breed name, though it was pretty quickly degraded with commercial breeding is my understanding. I get what you're saying though, I think many of the Syrian "breed" names are utterly useless (though probably like Black Bear, they once had real meaning).

 

I am curious what your point of view would be on why it seems (and for while people were tracking this anecdotal information on this site) that overall the hamster populations average lifespans in captivity seem much shorter than when I was a kid. Now, it seems a rarity that Syrian hamsters for example live longer than 2-3 years but I had multiple hamsters as a child that lived to 4 years old. Most people start worrying about hamster illness and health at age 1 and very happy when they make it to 2 years of age. This is in spite of the fact hamster care is arguably better than it was when I was a child. Very little bedding was provided, mesh wheels, smaller enclosures, very limited diets.

 

It did occur to me that reported lifespans seemed much shorter than they were when I was a kid, but I kind of chalked it up to resources wanting to be more conservative/older sources were perhaps too optimistic. But if y'all actually surveyed this a bit (1-2 years, yikes!), my first hunch would be the small effective population size of the captive population. To clarify, while there are many, many individuals, they all come from a very small set of ancestors (referred to as bottlenecking, which many people might be familiar with). This problem might be further worsened by localizations of gene pools; for example, West coast hamsters are more closely related and share less genetic exchange with Midwest hamsters (a process referred to as population structuring or stratification). I'm not familiar with the distributor structure, so I'm not sure how prominent is the effect of the latter point, but considering that the hamster fancy in North America is a lot less advanced than, say, Europe, the Phillipines, and Singapore, yet we have a great number of consumers, I'm going to guess the bottlenecking is particularly bad here. Also, I would assume that commercial breeders select for high litter counts (even more so than in the wild), and in turn overbreed a small set of individuals that are proven good breeders (and even hobby breeders probably do some of this to an extent), all of which exacerbates the bottlenecking. As I mentioned before, inbreeding depression is perhaps not as bad as previously thought, nonetheless, it certainly seems highly plausible that it has effected decreased lifespans over the last decades (especially if high lifespans are not explicitly bred for, which is incredibly difficult anyway since we won't know this information until past the breeding age; again, purebred dogs are an example).

 

Also, congrats on your new additions. Are you keeping them together or separate? and what kind of cage did you get?

 

Thank you! They are supposedly littermates (admittedly, they were from PetSmart, but more on that in a later post) and seemed quite bonded, so they are together for now (and still going strong). I'll say that it's been shocking to me to see the strong view against pairing that seems to be pretty widespread, as I remember it being pretty standard to keep Russian Dwarves together when I was young. In fact, I would say it was highly encouraged and even >2 in a group was suggested (even more so for the Roborovskis) IIRC. Granted, WWs were kind of more in the optionally social category even back then, and the one possible WW I had I kept alone (but usually kept Campbells together). And this was in the day of much smaller habitats too. I suspect people are just overly cautious (also more on this later), though it does seem that there's a good amount of horror stories out there (which I don't think were commonplace in my youth), so perhaps there has been a population genetic change regarding this behavior as well 🤷🏽‍♂️.

 

They were originally in an old tank I had from my gecko days, but I decided to upgrade them to a Sterilite bin with 650 sq. in. (and again I have further commentary on this in a future post).


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#9 xanderxue

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Posted 14 August 2022 - 05:26 AM

This is a very interesting and informative post. You do make a good point about there being a limited number of genes and how that limits the transmission of genes.

*now googling how many chromosomes hamsters have* (Syrian 44, Chinese 22, RCD & WW 28, robos 34 - per a quick search, so take these numbers with a grain of salt)

 

Thank you! Just as a quick clarification, chromosome numbers do not indicate the amount of genetic information, and in fact, the amount of genetic data (as measured in number of base pairs of nucelotides) does not reliably tell you how many functional genes there are (due to the presence of what's sometimes called "junk DNA"). There's actually a bunch of research just in this area (to which I did so happen to have a small contribution in one of my papers, but it's really not my area of expertise). Anyway, I hope you don't mind my saying, just want to clarify.

 

Glaucoma is the disease that is associated with Winter Whites, but most dwarfs get through life with neither diabetes nor glaucoma.

 

Thank you!!! That was bugging me .

 

Some hamster studies are coming from US universities, so I would say that yes, some American labs still use hamsters as test subjects. I don't know how widespread this is or how intertwined the lab hamster supply chain is with the pet supply chain. There do seem to be mills with lower standards. Hamster owners from one region of the US (I can't remember which) have been noticing an increase in hydro Syrian hamsters.

 

Ah, I forgot, I looked specifically at the Dwarf species (i.e. Phodopus), and it was admittedly a pretty quick search. I also limited it to only the last three years as it's often unlikely to not have anything published in that amount of time and still be working on a group of organisms, at least in my experience (though who knows with COVID). I might have also only paid attention to whether the labs were located on the East coast because, truth be told, part of my motivation was to see if I could use my academic credentials to obtain a retired WW .

 

I did a quick read on hydro Syrian hamsters, and it seems that the genetic condition is actually due to purposeful artificial selection for the trait. While unethical, I don't think this is the same issue as WW/Campbell hybridization, which I think many people feel is allegedly due more to incompetence. Actually, the fact that the mills are actively shaping their populations to attempt to appeal to customers (regardless of the disastrous health outcomes) would further suggest to me that they're unlikely to negligently allows WWs and Campbells interbreed, especially if litter counts are drastically reduced as has been reported (unless the mills saw some specific commercial benefit in doing so, which is perhaps true with say the Sunfire morph, but otherwise I don't see how this would be the case).


Edited by xanderxue, 14 August 2022 - 05:27 AM.


#10 xanderxue

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Posted 14 August 2022 - 05:30 AM

I've been arguing for this approach for awhile. While some individuals do display clear hybrid characteristics, many very strongly resemble one species or the other. I think we can acknowledge that we can't know the ancestry for sure, and that hybrids are common in he pet trade while still acknowledging that this particular hamster looks very strongly Winter White.

 

I agree, there are certainly many individuals that clearly have hybrid characteristics, and in those cases classifying as hybrids is necessary (though sometimes there's still a bit of a lean, hence my support for utilizing WW X or Campbell X). But when all traits line up with a particular species, especially if there was a prescribed label that is likewise consistent, and there are no discernible contradicting traits, then it's highly unlikely any meaningful introgression is present genomically to the point that the term hybrid would be used (though a genetic map would help this assertion). Like they say, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck...

 

Notably, I've seen some wild WW pictures that look pretty different from ANY captive WW pictures (including "purebred" examples from reputable breeders in Europe), so we also just have to acknowledge that the captive stock is already just its own thing anyway (which is obviously the truth with Campbells and their many morphs).

 

I do agree with Daisy that cage aggression is probably very much an RCD trait, and thus responsible for this idea, but it also struck me that in the early aughts, it was also a popular notion that black syrian hamsters were larger, friendlier, more docile, and less prone to biting. In that case, while those thing WERE true (but no longer are), it was because the color black did not exist in Mill lines until it was imported to this country from show lines- and show hamsters, of any color, are larger, friendlier, more docile, and less prone to biting. As they became fully integrated into the American mill stock, this became less likely to be true, and black Syrians today resemble all other Mill-line hamsters- smaller, flightier, thinner, shorter coats in the long hairs, and more prone to biting.

 

Ah yes, the European Black Bear story, I remember reading about this way back when. I will say that this is probably a bit different, as that was a particular breed with a simple desired genetic background that could be easily transplanted into existing stock (relating just to the color/size aspect, that is; behavior is typically much more complex, hence why not so easily carrying over), whereas the Campbell/WW dichotomy is between different species that seem to still maintain species boundaries despite gene flow between the two. So I think WW/Campbell behavior differences truly are deeply genetic differences between the two species (and that Martin Braak link I put above pretty much confirms it). However, I think the "Sunfire Djungarian" pushed by Petco is maybe sort of a similar example to the Black Bears, where we see Campbell behavior, at least from the few examples I've seen, overtake what was originally a WW phenotype (and this is maybe true with Mandarins/puddings the world over).

 

Perhaps you have different suppliers in California than where I'm at, but here, while the pet stores do put up labels purporting to identify the dwarf held within, they mean almost nothing. I've seen clear RCDs labeled as WWs and vice versa. Some labels don't even make sense "Dwarf Hamster vs "Russian Dwarf Hamster" vs "Winter White" vs "Djungarian Hamster" all in the same store, but labelled distinctly. Having worked in a chain pet store and being responsible for receiving new hamsters into the store, albeit some 20 years ago now, I can tell you they all came to us from the supplier that way. There were also often mislabeling of things like sex, which you would think they would have a strong incentive to keep straight for lab supply.

 

To clarify, while I grew up in CA (Bay Area specifically), I actually spent nearly all my adult life (last 13 years) in the NYC area (currently Long Island). And from what I've seen here at least, thus far the labels seemed to be pretty decent (Sunfires notwithstanding, those have pretty much all Campbell traits other than the color itself; unfortunately, that means demeanor too ), though it seems Chinese hamsters have kind of taken over and often stores won't carry both Campbells and WWs (plus they're often asleep, so can't always confirm). But at least with the closest PetSmarts around me, the WWs were surprisingly very true (especially the one where I got mine from, hence why I got them). As far as I could tell too, the sexes seemed to be accurate at the various stores.

 

Regarding common names, to be fair, the scientific literature itself really has not been any better, so it's understandable that everyone else would have confusion (even diehard hobbyists do not use a standardized naming scheme). In my area, it seems Petco is the only store still using the Djungarian nomenclature, but only with the Winter Whites, which seemed to be pretty standard practice in the literature several decades ago (though I think it might've originally been used with the Campbells?). I'll applaud Petco for at least including scientific names to clarify the matter (they also include a factoid that P. sungorus is aka WWs). I don't recall seeing around me a non-Sunfire WW example close up (which they do keep separate from the Sunfires and label differently), so I couldn't say if Petco's stock itself is reliable, but at least their naming has consistency. Petsmart OTH will explicitly say Winter Whites, and IIRC, only reserve Russian Dwarf for the Campbells, which is customary for European hobbyists from what I've seen (they also include scientific names to clarify). So I can't say the stores, from my limited viewpoint, are any worse than scientists or avid fanciers/hobbyists/keepers/breeders. But I've certainly seen much greater variance from the independent stores, unfortunately, and I can certainly see regional differences really influencing matters; you could probably tell me better, but I'm assuming even for the big chains, despite corporate overhead, an individual store is still run by individual managers and thus subject to localized practices. And ultimately I agree, no matter what, you still have to approach the labels with at least some degree of skepticism, all it takes is some untrained new guy (or even a customer) to just switch labels.

 

I will say though, there still seems to be a pretty big improvement from 15-20 years ago, so perhaps your retail experience is not quite the case anymore? I certainly felt the labels were absolutely in question when I first saw WWs, and my vague recollection is that I did see many Campbell-looking alleged WWs then. In fact, I decided to look at old pictures of my first supposed WW from 15 years ago (I double-checked too and the paperwork said WW), and there's certainly Campbellian traits (I recall noticing it even then, hence why I'm hesitant to say I previously had a WW; would probably say he was a WW X). If memory serves, I actually got him because he was the most WW-looking across pet shops too, and this was when WW first started appearing in the market (at this point in time I was in CA), so I can certainly see why the concept of rampant hybridization took off. And as far as sex goes, I remember most places wouldn't even tell you back then, and those that did gave strong disclaimers that they couldn't guarantee it. All the hamsters in the store would be in mixed sex groups, and I think I recall in-store litters being pretty commonplace (I guess that probably also contributed to the hybrid concerns). My assumption is that this was bad business all-around (suppliers being undercut by rampant local breeding, even if unintended; stores having unexpected bursts of supply with perhaps little means to take care of them; customers having unexpectedly pregnant mothers, either at the store or from accidentally getting a male and female together; little kids traumatized from stressed mothers eating their young; as you mentioned, upset lab groups; etc.), so there was strong pressure to shore this up.

 


Edited by xanderxue, 14 August 2022 - 05:31 AM.


#11 xanderxue

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Posted 14 August 2022 - 05:32 AM

Apologies for the edited posts, there was just an error where blocks of text were being duplicated and I wanted to clean it up.



#12 daisy~

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Posted 14 August 2022 - 05:54 AM

When it comes to Russian dwarfs, there isn't really a fancy in North America. There are no or very few breeders of "pure" WW or RCD hamsters and of course serious breeders don't breed hybrids.

The UK has a good size hamster fancy involving all the species, but continental Europe has the biggest fancies and often contributes new mutations. The Netherlands in particular has a large hamster fancy and UK breeders often go there to buy new breeding stock. In continental Europe a dwarf is considered purebred if all of its ancestors going back a certain number of generations were a single species. Hence colours like Mandarin are considered standard. However in the UK a hamster with even one ancestor of the wrong species can never be considered purebred and cannot be shown.

Edited by daisy~, 14 August 2022 - 05:55 AM.

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#13 xanderxue

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Posted 14 August 2022 - 06:20 AM

When it comes to Russian dwarfs, there isn't really a fancy in North America. There are no or very few breeders of "pure" WW or RCD hamsters and of course serious breeders don't breed hybrids.

The UK has a good size hamster fancy involving all the species, but continental Europe has the biggest fancies and often contributes new mutations. The Netherlands in particular has a large hamster fancy and UK breeders often go there to buy new breeding stock. In continental Europe a dwarf is considered purebred if all of its ancestors going back a certain number of generations were a single species. Hence colours like Mandarin are considered standard. However in the UK a hamster with even one ancestor of the wrong species can never be considered purebred and cannot be shown.

 

When I say fancy, I was referring to a more general caretaking community of higher standard, ala the hobby of hamstering I suppose, though perhaps that is a misusage. Regardless, I certainly agree, there's very little presence here (and not even much for Syrians), whereas I recall there being much more activity (even formal breeding in Campbells) when I was younger.

 

I indeed saw some report about, from what I remember, Mandarins being banned by the NHC from shows due to presumed hybridization. While I think shows and formal hamster fancy overall (and similarly in other animals, e.g. dogs) is quite, shall we say, not quite all they're cracked up to be anyway, I do think that's a bit of an overreaction and perhaps not beneficial to the community, at least from what I know of the situation. I think the continental European standard is much more reasonable (I had read the French view 5 generations back "pure"; I think that's a pretty fair ballpark).



#14 Kikya

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Posted 14 August 2022 - 06:51 AM

Thank you for the kind words! I wanted the initial posting to be a tad bit more technical and (hopefully) serve as a resource for others, but please feel free to ask any questions if there's something unclear and I'll aim for a more casual tone in replying.

 

As they were decades ago, the European hamster fancy seems to be much more developed than here in North America, at least is my perception as I've reacquainted myself with modern hamster-ing (I noticed the "colour" spelling in daisy's post, so I'm guessing daisy could say first-hand the strength of at least the UK community compared to here over the pond?)

 

Yes, I would agree that the hamster fancy is more developed in the UK, it seems that most of the hamster fancy comes from the West coast in the US, where there are actual shows, more breeders, etc. I do actually wish we had more choices in breeders and things, since there were no breeders within an 8 hour drive from me. I live on the East Coast. I had originally wanted to get a hamster from a breeder when I took up hamster keeping as an adult. Also veterinary care in the US is behind the UK and some Asian countries as well.

 

I think the need for others to say it depends on the individual is that, as is often the case, people confuse averages with variance; sure, individual differences certainly exist, and may lead to extreme exceptions, but it's hard to dispute that species (even between two closely related ones as these), or even biological sex, has a very large impact on temperament (on a heritable level at least, environmental effects like taming certainly has a significant influence).

 

100%

 

I definitely noticed a decrease, hence my motivation for this as well as my next two posts (I suppose I have a trilogy planned ). Obviously it won't happen overnight, but it's my (perhaps foolhardy) hope that maybe I can offer a perspective that'll encourage more growth in the community. Though I have to say, I've read discussions here that formed a fairly convincing argument that hamsters are really not the most pleasant companion, and couple that with increasing small animal choices in the last several years, that's probably a contributing factor that cannot be changed .

 

I do think there is a trend of taking too much time or too much handsoff approach to hamsters which lends itself to hamsters not being particular friendly toward humans. I think people sometimes just forget that part of animal husbandry is making sure that your animal is tamed and able to interact with humans for their sake.

 

To be fair, names are just names, and ethical/association-affiliated breeders come up with their own labels all of the time. I actually quite like Sunfire, it's no more or less valid than Mandarin or pudding, and sounds the coolest to me. I may be wrong, but from what I remember way back when, I think Black Bear was actually coined by the hobby breeder who discovered it? At least back in the day, it was viewed as a pretty respected breed name, though it was pretty quickly degraded with commercial breeding is my understanding. I get what you're saying though, I think many of the Syrian "breed" names are utterly useless (though probably like Black Bear, they once had real meaning).

 

Well, it's useful to describe coloring but it leads people to not understand that just because your Syrian hamster is black, doesn't make him a difference species.

 

It did occur to me that reported lifespans seemed much shorter than they were when I was a kid, but I kind of chalked it up to resources wanting to be more conservative/older sources were perhaps too optimistic. But if y'all actually surveyed this a bit (1-2 years, yikes!), my first hunch would be the small effective population size of the captive population. To clarify, while there are many, many individuals, they all come from a very small set of ancestors (referred to as bottlenecking, which many people might be familiar with). This problem might be further worsened by localizations of gene pools; for example, West coast hamsters are more closely related and share less genetic exchange with Midwest hamsters (a process referred to as population structuring or stratification). I'm not familiar with the distributor structure, so I'm not sure how prominent is the effect of the latter point, but considering that the hamster fancy in North America is a lot less advanced than, say, Europe, the Phillipines, and Singapore, yet we have a great number of consumers, I'm going to guess the bottlenecking is particularly bad here. Also, I would assume that commercial breeders select for high litter counts (even more so than in the wild), and in turn overbreed a small set of individuals that are proven good breeders (and even hobby breeders probably do some of this to an extent), all of which exacerbates the bottlenecking. As I mentioned before, inbreeding depression is perhaps not as bad as previously thought, nonetheless, it certainly seems highly plausible that it has effected decreased lifespans over the last decades (especially if high lifespans are not explicitly bred for, which is incredibly difficult anyway since we won't know this information until past the breeding age; again, purebred dogs are an example).

 

I wonder what the average life spans of hamsters are in other countries but it's a small community and it's hard to get enough data to compare just in a large country like the US. You make a good point about the bottlenecking.

 

Thank you! They are supposedly littermates (admittedly, they were from PetSmart, but more on that in a later post) and seemed quite bonded, so they are together for now (and still going strong). I'll say that it's been shocking to me to see the strong view against pairing that seems to be pretty widespread, as I remember it being pretty standard to keep Russian Dwarves together when I was young. In fact, I would say it was highly encouraged and even >2 in a group was suggested (even more so for the Roborovskis) IIRC. Granted, WWs were kind of more in the optionally social category even back then, and the one possible WW I had I kept alone (but usually kept Campbells together). And this was in the day of much smaller habitats too. I suspect people are just overly cautious (also more on this later), though it does seem that there's a good amount of horror stories out there (which I don't think were commonplace in my youth), so perhaps there has been a population genetic change regarding this behavior as well ‍♂.

 

They were originally in an old tank I had from my gecko days, but I decided to upgrade them to a Sterilite bin with 650 sq. in. (and again I have further commentary on this in a future post).

I remember this as a child and it was common that the pet stores would encourage you to buy them in groups of 2 or 3. It's not clear to me why the decline other than this community on HH is a bit insular and people repeat the same information over and over like it is proven truth without stopping to think about why it is considered true. So when keeping pairs went out of fashion, it was highly discouraged.

I think it's possible to keep pairs but you do have to pay attention to the cage dynamics and be able to recognize the signs of one hamster bullying another and know when to separate before something bad happens. I think in some ways in the wild if two animals have a falling out, it's easier for them to go their separate ways then in captivity where they have limited space and resources. Probably too many new owners keeping pairs and not understanding that sometimes you need to seperate caused the community to just tell people not to keep pairs at all.

 

I did a quick read on hydro Syrian hamsters, and it seems that the genetic condition is actually due to purposeful artificial selection for the trait. While unethical, I don't think this is the same issue as WW/Campbell hybridization, which I think many people feel is allegedly due more to incompetence. Actually, the fact that the mills are actively shaping their populations to attempt to appeal to customers (regardless of the disastrous health outcomes) would further suggest to me that they're unlikely to negligently allows WWs and Campbells interbreed, especially if litter counts are drastically reduced as has been reported (unless the mills saw some specific commercial benefit in doing so, which is perhaps true with say the Sunfire morph, but otherwise I don't see how this would be the case).

I do think hydro hamsters were intentionally bred and have gotten more into the community with accidental litters, etc. It's most a West coast thing creeping into the Midwest. I haven't seen too many hydro hamsters/owners on the East coast.

 

I will say though, there still seems to be a pretty big improvement from 15-20 years ago, so perhaps your retail experience is not quite the case anymore? I certainly felt the labels were absolutely in question when I first saw WWs, and my vague recollection is that I did see many Campbell-looking alleged WWs then. In fact, I decided to look at old pictures of my first supposed WW from 15 years ago (I double-checked too and the paperwork said WW), and there's certainly Campbellian traits (I recall noticing it even then, hence why I'm hesitant to say I previously had a WW; would probably say he was a WW X). If memory serves, I actually got him because he was the most WW-looking across pet shops too, and this was when WW first started appearing in the market (at this point in time I was in CA), so I can certainly see why the concept of rampant hybridization took off. And as far as sex goes, I remember most places wouldn't even tell you back then, and those that did gave strong disclaimers that they couldn't guarantee it. All the hamsters in the store would be in mixed sex groups, and I think I recall in-store litters being pretty commonplace (I guess that probably also contributed to the hybrid concerns). My assumption is that this was bad business all-around (suppliers being undercut by rampant local breeding, even if unintended; stores having unexpected bursts of supply with perhaps little means to take care of them; customers having unexpectedly pregnant mothers, either at the store or from accidentally getting a male and female together; little kids traumatized from stressed mothers eating their young; as you mentioned, upset lab groups; etc.), so there was strong pressure to shore this up.

I remember when hamsters were basically kept in giant glass store displays and there were 15-20 hamsters in a bin. You could reach in and pet the hamsters. Though since they were sleeping during the day all it did was wake them up. I could understand why hybrids would be more common then. That could also explain why hamsters were considered more "friendly" since they got more human interaction at a young age. Now hamsters are kept in separate 10 gallon tanks instead of the free for all. I did bring home a female hamster when I was a kid who was pregnant. I am sure other moms complained to the store like like mine did about now having 10 hamsters instead of just 1... Back then the labels (at least where I lived) were Golden Hamster, Russian Dwarf, and Winter White. Chinese hamsters were not a thing when I was a kid.


Edited by Kikya, 14 August 2022 - 06:57 AM.

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#15 Lillias

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Posted 15 August 2022 - 02:21 PM

Just as a quick clarification, chromosome numbers do not indicate the amount of genetic information, and in fact, the amount of genetic data (as measured in number of base pairs of nucelotides) does not reliably tell you how many functional genes there are (due to the presence of what's sometimes called "junk DNA"). There's actually a bunch of research just in this area (to which I did so happen to have a small contribution in one of my papers, but it's really not my area of expertise). Anyway, I hope you don't mind my saying, just want to clarify.

The more info, the merrier. I know that higher chromosome numbers don't necessarily mean more genetic information (I was just suddenly curious), but beyond that, well, biology isn't my field.

 

Hamsters were (probably still are) used heavily for Covid studies. Most of the studies I've seen were done overseas (Europe and Asia), but I think I saw one by John Hopkins.

 

I was really hoping hydro hams weren't intentional, but similar selective breeding is done for dogs. Functional teeth are over-rated, I guess?


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