88 replies to this topic

[KKM]

I pretty much only give dried insects as "protein boosters"... I have given tofu as a treat. This is so confusing!

[Taxonomist]

I was hoping Tax might weigh in and make sure we are interpreting this correctly- especially since I see the give eggs or tofu as a protein booster advice given out frequently here.

 

 

Hmm, I hope so. I've been trying to find a protein boost that is also low in fat, and I thought tofu and egg white fits the bill. I'm not sure now though.

We do need to wait for Tax to be here

 

This is something I have thought about before--whether or not the water content should be "counted" when it comes to determining protein.  And I think we do have to include the water content in analysis.  It becomes more obvious when we think about it in terms of amounts versus percentages.  An X-sized piece of egg white or tofu has Y-grams of protein in it.   Even if you exclude the water, the amount of protein in that same piece is the same (the percent has changed, but the amount does not--more protein does not magically appear).

 

But it becomes more of an issue of replacement versus addition, I think.

 

Let's say we have a hamster on a main diet of 20% protein (because it's a nice, round number).  Also, let's say that this hamster eats 10 grams per day.  That gives us the following numbers:

 

Grams of protein consumed daily = 2.00g

Grams of protein per 1g of diet = 0.20g

 

Now let's say we feed some egg white.  We'll go with 1g of egg white, again, to keep the numbers as neat as possible.  So that's 0.11g of protein per 1g of egg white.

 

Here's the crux of the matter.  When the hamster eats that 1g of egg white, there are 2 main possibilities:

 

A) That 1g of egg white REPLACES 1g of food, so the hamster is eating 9g of food and 1g of egg white

B) That 1g of egg white ADDS ONTO the diet, so the hamster still eats 10g of food, and an additional 1g of egg white

 

In the case of Option A, feeding egg white actually lowers the overall protein consumption of the hamster!  Instead of the 0.20g of protein the hamster is getting in 1g of its food, it's getting only 0.11g of protein in 1g of egg white.  So it would only be getting 1.91g of protein instead of 2.00g in the whole daily ration.

 

In the case of Option B, feeding egg white would indeed raise the protein content of the diet.  If the hamster is still eating all 10g of its food, it's getting its 2.00g of protein.  But then it's getting an additional 0.11g from the egg white.  So that means it has 2.11g of protein in its diet.

 

So...the question is....which one is it?  And unfortunately, without doing some very in-depth studies about the consistency of food consumption, etc., I think it's kind of impossible to know.  However, the general assumption regarding this is that of Option A--that if you feed your hamster a treat, your hamster will eat less of its main diet that day.

[pawlove]

Here's the crux of the matter.  When the hamster eats that 1g of egg white, there are 2 main possibilities:

 

A) That 1g of egg white REPLACES 1g of food, so the hamster is eating 9g of food and 1g of egg white

B) That 1g of egg white ADDS ONTO the diet, so the hamster still eats 10g of food, and an additional 1g of egg white

 

So...the question is....which one is it?  And unfortunately, without doing some very in-depth studies about the consistency of food consumption, etc., I think it's kind of impossible to know.  However, the general assumption regarding this is that of Option A--that if you feed your hamster a treat, your hamster will eat less of its main diet that day.

With my hamsters it's option A. They don't eat their less favorite items when I offer tofu. It's so frustrating

If most hamsters are like mine, then we can't recommend tofu and egg white as protein boosters, as it would just lower the protein?

And what about fresh veggies? It's the same, I think?

Sorry I have so many questions.

[Zahra]

I have a question though. Would a hamster in the wild get a consistently similar %ed diet? For example, if they got 18% protein on Monday, would the get 18 again on Tuesday? Should this affect how we feed our hamsters? Do they need "18%" (or more or less etc) every day? Or would they fare better with high protein days and low protein days? 

 

I think I just confused myself even more..

[pawlove]

I have a question though. Would a hamster in the wild get a consistently similar %ed diet? For example, if they got 18% protein on Monday, would the get 18 again on Tuesday? Should this affect how we feed our hamsters? Do they need "18%" (or more or less etc) every day? Or would they fare better with high protein days and low protein days? 

 

I think I just confused myself even more..

I don't think so. Wild hamsters would have to make do with whatever available and edible. But as pet owners we would like the best for our hamsters. Although we really don't know much about how many % hamsters actually need. We just have a rough estimation. 

 

In the past topic Tax made about protein and age, it's stated in the paper that between hamsters fed 12%-24% protein there isn't much difference in growth and lifespan. I think wild hamsters would normally get around these numbers. If several individuals unable to gain that much % they'll die. While we don't want out pets to die like that. 

 

That's just my thought, though.

[nebit]

I have a question though. Would a hamster in the wild get a consistently similar %ed diet? For example, if they got 18% protein on Monday, would the get 18 again on Tuesday? Should this affect how we feed our hamsters? Do they need "18%" (or more or less etc) every day? Or would they fare better with high protein days and low protein days? 

 

I think I just confused myself even more..

You are right, they would probably have highs and lows. However, this also happens to some extent with seed mixes- one day's bowl might contain more high protein ingredients, the next days, not as much. Or if you fill the bowl once every few days, the first day your hamster may eat all the tastiest, probably high protein bits, and the next few days have to eat the lower protein parts.

[Cammies♥Hammies]

Wow! This is really helpful and full of information!!!

[Yukarimei]

  This is truly wonderful ^-^ For the past few days I've been picking out all of the corn because I though it was bad for diabetes prone hamsters. 

[emiee7]

This topic amazed me truely. Now I have a question  IYO if you had a diabetic species prone would you allow all the corn and peas allowed in their food. I am a very worried person I guess lol. I want my hamsters to be happy and healthy and I am worried corn and peas if given daily will cause problems. I know you explain it but I guess my question is can they be feden daily without a possibility of health problems. Also IYO how many sunflower seeds and such should be feden daily. This topic is just jock full of information and I think this is an amazing post. Great job to everyone

[nebit]

This topic amazed me truely. Now I have a question  IYO if you had a diabetic species prone would you allow all the corn and peas allowed in their food. I am a very worried person I guess lol. I want my hamsters to be happy and healthy and I am worried corn and peas if given daily will cause problems. I know you explain it but I guess my question is can they be feden daily without a possibility of health problems. Also IYO how many sunflower seeds and such should be feden daily. This topic is just jock full of information and I think this is an amazing post. Great job to everyone

YES. Both are low in sugar. Peas are actually HIGH in protein. I wouldn't pick any sunflower seeds out of the food- they are included in the food's fat and protein percentages, so even though they are high in fat and protein, overall eating the mix, your hamster is still only getting the fat and protein levels on the bag. If giving as a treat, I wouldn't give more than one or two extra at a time.

[emiee7]

YES. Both are low in sugar. Peas are actually HIGH in protein. I wouldn't pick any sunflower seeds out of the food- they are included in the food's fat and protein percentages, so even though they are high in fat and protein, overall eating the mix, your hamster is still only getting the fat and protein levels on the bag. If giving as a treat, I wouldn't give more than one or two extra at a time.

So it wont potentially harm them? Is any amount to much? And okay

Edited by emiee7, 20 August 2014 - 03:03 AM.

[nebit]

So it wont potentially harm them? Is any amount to much? And okay

Well ANYTHING can be harmful in quantity, you can even OD on water if you drink enough of it. But the amount contained within their food will not be harmful. And peas, corn, and sunflower seeds pose no more risk in any setting to diabetic hamsters than they do to all hamsters in general.

[emiee7]

Well ANYTHING can be harmful in quantity, you can even OD on water if you drink enough of it. But the amount contained within their food will not be harmful. And peas, corn, and sunflower seeds pose no more risk in any setting to diabetic hamsters than they do to all hamsters in general.

Okay! One more question sorry hehe. Well kind of 2. IYO per scoop of food the corn amaount and peas would be fine and not like an OD of sugar daily and such if that makes since. And is corn flour safe in treats

[nebit]

Okay! One more question sorry hehe. Well kind of 2. IYO per scoop of food the corn amaount and peas would be fine and not like an OD of sugar daily and such if that makes since. And is corn flour safe in treats

1. That is correct, corn and peas are LOW in sugar, but food is made to be fed as is, whatever is in the scoop so long as you finish the whole bag before starting the next one, the diet is balanced over time (ie, think of yourself- maybe one day you eat a lot of fatty foods like nuts, but the next day you eat your veggies, and over time you eat a balanced diet- you don't make EVERY meal nutritionally complete- feeding a mix works th same way)

 

2/ corn flour should be fine, particularly since treats are meant to be fed only in small, occasional quantities.

[emiee7]

Okay thank you for clearing that up