84 replies to this topic

[FirefoxMiho]

I don't get why people complain that they can't adopt a hamster because they would have to drive a few hours for it. We have three dogs and had to drive several hours to get every single one of them. Majority of dog owners I know have done the same, in order to get their dog from a good breeder/from a rescue, not from a mill. Why shouldn't you make that sacrifice for a hamster? Is it not worth it because they are so cheap and don't live as long as dogs? Should they just keep suffering because we are too lazy to take a ride in a car or because our parents won't give us a ride but we think we need a hamster?

Another argument is "I've waited for months but there are no hamsters up for adoption in my area!" I've said this before: we waited two years until we got our last dog, even though we had less reputable options available all the time. Didn't kill us. Again, aren't hamsters, being living and feeling animals just like dogs, worth the wait?

I just can't fathom how someone who knows about mills still thinks "I know they're cruel and horrible, but I'm still going to give them my full support (=money) because it's inconvenient for me to wait until I can get my own cutie!"

Because why drive hours and waste money and gas for one hamster that's probably over a year old when you can use the gas money and pay for the hamster's vet bills? There is nothing efficient about that.

Edited by FirefoxMiho, 10 January 2018 - 10:38 AM.

[Lokakuinen]

Because why drive hours and waste money and gas for one hamster that's probably over a year old when you can use the gas money and pay for the hamster's vet bills? There is nothing efficient about that.

 

Perhaps one ought to save up more money or not get a pet unless their financial situation is decent enough so the gas money won't ruin their chances to go to the vet. 

 

And if that seems like a "waste", there's the option I know many don't agree with: don't get a hamster. At least not until you can find one nearby - if there's a pet shop selling hamsters, there will be hamsters up for adoption at some point. Or if your conscience can take it, sure, give more money to the mill. No one can stop you, we can only try to spread the information about the cruelty the money is supporting. 

Edited by Lokakuinen, 10 January 2018 - 04:44 PM.

[Suga]

Um no? They stopped selling puppies and kittens because city governments intervened. Some of them moved to towns where it is.

I'm aware. And I don't find PETA to be a reliable source as they also believe dogs and kittens shouldn't be pets and should be left to die. I'm saying these pet suppliers aren't going anywhere no matter what you do. If it bothers you that much, talk to your state representatives and push for a ban on pet mills. Until that happens, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

Pet stores are the only options for some people because they'll live in areas where rescues only consists of dogs and cats. They'll search craigslist for months and nothing.

 

You absolutely cannot deny that there were tons of people against supporting puppy and kitten mills, without those numbers there wouldn't have been a change. I never mentioned PETA, I talked about my own experience working at a pet store. We literally saw the change happen with dogs and cats, saying that rodent mills aren't going to disappear no matter what we do is rather ignorant. Yes, it does bother me, because someone will read what you wrote and think that since "nothing will change", they can keep continuing to purchase animals from pet stores. It upsets me that you have the "nothing we can do" attitude, you're basically saying that since you think you cannot do anything, it's fine to purchase from pet stores and support rodent mills.

 

Did you even read what I wrote? Pet stores are rarely ever the only option for anyone, it's just the most convenient option. I waited for a year and a half for my Chinese hamster, because that's better than giving money to support the abuse and allow it to continue. If you can't find a hamster on craigslist for months, wait longer or don't get one. I hate that self entitled attitude that many people have, they think they deserve a hamster and have to right to own one, or any animal for that matter. If you're aware of rodent mills, why are you advocating giving money to them and allowing them to continuing running? I just don't understand.

[Suga]

Because why drive hours and waste money and gas for one hamster that's probably over a year old when you can use the gas money and pay for the hamster's vet bills? There is nothing efficient about that.

 

Wasting money and gas? See, this is where "convenience" comes into play. Why waste money on gas when you can drive 10 minutes to get a hamster from PetSmart? This is exactly what I meant by pet stores being the most convenient option.

 

If you can't pay the vet bills because of gas money, perhaps you don't have enough saved up to own a hamster. The money it costs to drive 2 hours, at least where I live, is $25. It's nowhere near the amount you need in a vet or emergency fund. A basic checkup can run anywhere from $60 to $100, I don't see how gas money could significantly affect a vet fund.

 

Pets aren't meant to be "efficient". I waited 1 and a half years and drove 6 hours in total for one of my hamsters, because that's honestly better than supporting mills in my eyes. That could seem extreme to some people, but it's just meant to be used as an example of how we shouldn't be using convenience, or anything for the matter, as an excuse to give money to these mills.

[nebit]

Um no? They stopped selling puppies and kittens because city governments intervened. Some of them moved to towns where it is.

As someone who is old enough to remember a time when chain pet stores and stores that DIDN'T sell puppies and kittens were rarities, I can assure you, that's not what happened. First the public became aware of puppy mills, and people began to avoid stores that sold them. As a result, stores that sell puppies and kittens have steadily declined over the past 30 years. It's only been in the last 10 years or so that legislation has started to be passed outlawing the practice- long AFTER stores began to move away from the practice. Stores that sell puppies and kittens are now just a small fraction of all pet stores nationwide, 30 years ago, a pet store that didn't sell them was unusual.

[SammyDean]

Because why drive hours and waste money and gas for one hamster that's probably over a year old when you can use the gas money and pay for the hamster's vet bills? There is nothing efficient about that.

 

Wait, what? I literally dont see what your argument is here? So, you're saying that buy driving a couple hours to get a rescue hamster, then you wont have funds for vet care? Or, it's better to leave that hamster in the rescue because... no, that doesnt make sense. Or, its more efficient to get a hamster from a store because... huh, no I don't get that argument either. Sorry I guess I just dont get at what point "efficiency" came into owning a pet 

 

If youre looking at the most cost-effective, cheapest route: Don't get a pet, ever. They are most definitely not the most efficient way to live your life. They suck up your time and money and inconveniently get sick and cost $0000s to fix. Least efficient thing ever. 

 

Now, if your one goal in life, your lifes purpose, was to own hamsters, then yes, the most "efficient" way to do this would be to bulk buy them from a store. Heck, it's probably more "efficient" to order them to come in a crate straight from the mill.

 

Anyhow that got a bit weird.

 

But yes, what others have said, it's just an excuse when people say "there's LITERALLY no other way for me to get a hamster, there's NEVER any in rescues near me!" Okay, so wait longer. Most of the kids who say this have only been looking at getting a hamster for the last couple months. If you (or your parents) arent willing to put the time and effort and gas money into driving out to pick up a ham thats a bit further away, then how much effort are they gonna put in when it gets sick and needs vet care? As someone else said, a hamster is a want, not a need. 

[top tier hippo]

Now, please, judge me all you want. But that doesn't change the fact that I did buy Eleanor from a pet store knowing what goes on in mills. But I also have to say that I...I...I'm different from you guys. I don't feel guilt because I believe that all animals deserve a good home, no matter where they come from. If I'm supporting a mill, I don't feel guilty, it doesn't bug my conscience. I recently got a PM from a member (not telling), asking me how I didn't regret (and still don't) buying Eleanor from the pet store, and that was the answer I gave him/her. Now, if it's any consolation to those who do judge or are 'offended', I will not buy another animal again. Only adopt. Okay? So that's my post. Again, feel free to judge me all you want, I will not reply to any comment on this post.

[SammyDean]

Now, please, judge me all you want. But that doesn't change the fact that I did buy Eleanor from a pet store knowing what goes on in mills. But I also have to say that I...I...I'm different from you guys. I don't feel guilt because I believe that all animals deserve a good home, no matter where they come from. If I'm supporting a mill, I don't feel guilty, it doesn't bug my conscience. I recently got a PM from a member (not telling), asking me how I didn't regret (and still don't) buying Eleanor from the pet store, and that was the answer I gave him/her. Now, if it's any consolation to those who do judge or are 'offended', I will not buy another animal again. Only adopt. Okay? So that's my post. Again, feel free to judge me all you want, I will not reply to any comment on this post.

 

I am only talking for myself here, but I am not judging anyone for shopping rather than adopting, I'm judging the people who shop rather than adopt because they know fine well what the petstore hamster mills entail, know that they could drive an hour and get a rescue ham or wait a couple months for one, but still buy one and act self-righteous like "I know it's bad and I don't support mills at all but I JUST NEEDED A HAMSTER RIGHT NOW AND NO I COULDN'T WAIT FOR ONE TO COME INTO THE SHELTER!!"

 

If you shop for a hamster, no hate. But don't make it out like you're against/not supporting hamster mills if you do that.

[top tier hippo]

I am only talking for myself here, but I am not judging anyone for shopping rather than adopting, I'm judging the people who shop rather than adopt because they know fine well what the petstore hamster mills entail, know that they could drive an hour and get a rescue ham or wait a couple months for one, but still buy one and act self-righteous like "I know it's bad and I don't support mills at all but I JUST NEEDED A HAMSTER RIGHT NOW AND NO I COULDN'T WAIT FOR ONE TO COME INTO THE SHELTER!!"
 
If you shop for a hamster, no hate. But don't make it out like you're against/not supporting hamster mills if you do that.

Yes, but that is exactly what I said I did. I know there's no hate, but I also bought because of my parents ("buying hamsters from a pet store is fine"). I won't comment again unless I feel necessary

[nebit]

 I don't feel guilt because I believe that all animals deserve a good home, no matter where they come from.

What you're really saying is, you feel all animals deserve a good home regardless of where they come from... except for Eleanor's mother, father, aunts, uncles, and siblings retained for breeding and all future descendants that your purchase just paid for their continued captivity under mill conditions. You also don't feel her siblings that were sold necessarily deserve a good home, because you're enabling the mill that sells them indiscriminately to anyone with the cash and no care about their welfare. So all animals except for all of those that you throw under the bus by "saving" the one hamster you can see in front of you.

[top tier hippo]

What you're really saying is, you feel all animals deserve a good home regardless of where they come from... except for Eleanor's mother, father, aunts, uncles, and siblings retained for breeding and all future descendants that your purchase just paid for their continued captivity under mill conditions. You also don't feel her siblings that were sold necessarily deserve a good home, because you're enabling the mill that sells them indiscriminately to anyone with the cash and no care about their welfare. So all animals except for all of those that you throw under the bus by "saving" the one hamster you can see in front of you.

I never said that I was saving a hamster; I said all animals are equal. But really, I can't keep more than one hamster, especially since I'm a beginner. So while I do feel bad for all of Ellie's relatives, there really is nothing I can do to help them

[Suga]

I never said that I was saving a hamster; I said all animals are equal. But really, I can't keep more than one hamster, especially since I'm a beginner. So while I do feel bad for all of Ellie's relatives, there really is nothing I can do to help them

 

See, but by purchasing Ellie, your money given to that store allows the mills to continue running. So while you may have "saved" your own hamster, the money you gave to do so allows the mills to abuse and even kill dozens more. It's a never ending cycle if you continue to think that way. Yes, every hamster deserves a good home, but if people continue to essentially fund these mills, they will just keep breeding and pumping out more and more hamsters. The more people buy hamsters, the more hamsters are bred, because the demand increases. 

[top tier hippo]

See, but by purchasing Ellie, your money given to that store allows the mills to continue running. So while you may have "saved" your own hamster, the money you gave to do so allows the mills to abuse and even kill dozens more. It's a never ending cycle if you continue to think that way. Yes, every hamster deserves a good home, but if people continue to essentially fund these mills, they will just keep breeding and pumping out more and more hamsters. The more people buy hamsters, the more hamsters are bred, because the demand increases.

As I said, I never said I was saving a hamster by buying her. And I do understand what goes on in mills, but I don't know why I bought her, but I did. Again, as I said, I will NEVER purchase another hamster from a store for that reason.

[nebit]

I never said that I was saving a hamster; I said all animals are equal. But really, I can't keep more than one hamster, especially since I'm a beginner. So while I do feel bad for all of Ellie's relatives, there really is nothing I can do to help them

You're playing semantics, it's a distraction. You said you don't feel bad because all animals deserve good homes regardless of where they come from. Except by buying Ellie, you condemn many more hamsters to NOT good homes. So what you mean is, the hamster you see in front of you deserves a good home, but not the ones you just tacitly approved of staying at the mill, and the ones the mill will create or buy in the future, by giving the mill money for their product. Ellie was not created in a vacuum, her existence, and your purchase of her, effect many more lives than hers and yours. Buying a mill hamster sends a message with your money- it says you're ok with their relatives continuing to suffer.

[Gab33]

I think maybe it would be more constructive to find ways to educate the general public about this issue rather than arguing with individuals. It takes a large body of people to enact change.

 

When I enter Petsmart, I often see little kids with their parents impulse buying hamsters. As frustrating as it is, I can't blame those individuals, and I don't want to- I'm not a selfless person.

 

I would love to engage in a positive discussion about ways to help. (Obviously not buying pet store hamsters is one way that I stand behind.)