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#31 midget7

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 08:39 AM

Recasting someones race from Greek to something else seems very racist to me. It would be like a European person taking over the role of Black Panther. It changes everything about the person's background and where they came from. Not cool.


I’m assuming you haven’t read the books? Because otherwise you would know that the characters being children of Greek Gods has no bearing on their race whatsoever. Hazel Levesque is Black. Frank Zhang is Chinese. Piper McLean is Native American. Leo Valdez is Latino. Also, Greek is a nationality, not a race. Unless you’re talking about the ethnic group of Ancient Greeks, and even then, this story is set in the modern day so I don’t think that’s particularly relevant here.

I agree that sometimes you can’t change the race of a character without changing everything about their background. This is the case when the character’s race and culture are integral to their storyline. To use your example, Black Panther, and the nation of Wakanda, are heavily inspired by African culture. So of course you couldn’t replace an actor with a white person without it being racist and frankly, really weird.

On the other hand, Annabeth’s storyline doesn’t really have anything to do with her race. Yes, she’s described as white in the books. Does that ever have any effect on the character decisions she makes? No. So having her be played by a Black actress doesn’t change anything from a character perspective. Superficially, she’ll look different. Some people won’t be a fan of that, which I understand.

But I don’t understand why people have a problem specifically with Annabeth’s casting, but are fine with the fact that Percy’s actor doesn’t have dark hair? Or that Grover’s actor is South Asian when he was described as ginger in the books.

If you are willing to have an open mind about this, I urge you to read the Rick Riordan’s blog post (linked in my last post) because he explains it better than I ever could. He was the creator of the series, and if anyone should get to decide who plays his characters, it’s him.

(Also sorry hippo for derailing the topic!)
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#32 top tier hippo

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 08:47 AM

removed for personal reasons


Edited by top tier hippo, 16 August 2022 - 02:40 AM.

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#33 Hamustars

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 09:20 AM

I’m assuming you haven’t read the books? Because otherwise you would know that the characters being children of Greek Gods has no bearing on their race whatsoever. Hazel Levesque is Black. Frank Zhang is Chinese. Piper McLean is Native American. Leo Valdez is Latino. Also, Greek is a nationality, not a race. Unless you’re talking about the ethnic group of Ancient Greeks, and even then, this story is set in the modern day so I don’t think that’s particularly relevant here.

I agree that sometimes you can’t change the race of a character without changing everything about their background. This is the case when the character’s race and culture are integral to their storyline. To use your example, Black Panther, and the nation of Wakanda, are heavily inspired by African culture. So of course you couldn’t replace an actor with a white person without it being racist and frankly, really weird.

On the other hand, Annabeth’s storyline doesn’t really have anything to do with her race. Yes, she’s described as white in the books. Does that ever have any effect on the character decisions she makes? No. So having her be played by a Black actress doesn’t change anything from a character perspective. Superficially, she’ll look different. Some people won’t be a fan of that, which I understand.

But I don’t understand why people have a problem specifically with Annabeth’s casting, but are fine with the fact that Percy’s actor doesn’t have dark hair? Or that Grover’s actor is South Asian when he was described as ginger in the books.

If you are willing to have an open mind about this, I urge you to read the Rick Riordan’s blog post (linked in my last post) because he explains it better than I ever could. He was the creator of the series, and if anyone should get to decide who plays his characters, it’s him.

(Also sorry hippo for derailing the topic!)

 

 

Nah, it's fine haha. No need to apologize.

 

I haven't read the books, I bought them and I plan to start them very soon. 

 

But to me, the whole having an issue with the casting of Annabeth as black is a little ridiculous. It doesn't change her storyline, like you said, and it's always nice to be more inclusive to other races, imo. In a world with a lot of TV being dominated by a largely white cast of characters, if not all white, I have no problem seeing characters being taken on by actors/actresses who can do it justice. 

 

No, I haven't read the books, so I am in no way a die-hard fan of any of the characters. So my judgement may be a little unreliable...

 

But to me. It's way less about the character appearance than it is whether or not the actor can do the character justice. If she can get me attached to Annabeth as a character, I'm totally on board as long as the actor's casting is not racist due to complete and inappropriate culture flips (if y'all know what I mean. midget7 explained it better than me).

 

EDIT: had to make a quick fix to make it a little more attuned to my thoughts, haha.

 

I'm sorry that I started such a conflict! I'm fine with percy's hair since they got him so spot on anyway. And Grover, he isn't that much of a main character (No hate plz!), I don't remember seeing him THAT explained in the book. At least not as much as Annabeth was. it was always mentioned when annabeth was there what she looked like and I'm sorry that my opinion has made so much problems! I feel bad because I have caused a debate in what was supposed to be a book reviewing topic! Sorry hippo! I hope we can all move past this and just keep our opinions under wraps so that we might go on in peace! I'm also sorry to midget for any heart ache I might have caused! I'm a very hot-headed person and sometimes I can't hold my tongue (Not trying to make excuses for my actions)

Again, I am extremely sorry for all this!
 


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#34 top tier hippo

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 09:26 AM

I'm sorry that I started such a conflict! I'm fine with percy's hair since they got him so spot on anyway. And Grover, he isn't that much of a main character (No hate plz!), I don't remember seeing him THAT explained in the book. At least not as much as Annabeth was. it was always mentioned when annabeth was there what she looked like and I'm sorry that my opinion has made so much problems! I feel bad because I have caused a debate in what was supposed to be a book reviewing topic! Sorry hippo! I hope we can all move past this and just keep our opinions under wraps so that we might go on in peace! I'm also sorry to midget for any heart ache I might have caused! I'm a very hot-headed person and sometimes I can't hold my tongue (Not trying to make excuses for my actions)

Again, I am extremely sorry for all this!
 

While I can't speak for anyone else, it didn't cause me any heartache or harm, so don't worry about it. Debates can happen anywhere, and discussions can be interesting and very eye-opening, so don't feel bad about accidentally sparking a discussion <333 We're allowed to have opinions, and you expressed yours kindly in my eyes :)



#35 lilhams~uwu

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 12:20 PM

I may or may not have wrote a wee bit essay about the PJO TV series casting.. whoops. Although that will be left dead in my documents, all I can say that it was not a conflict whatsoever!! Debates and discussions are important, and it was really interesting to read through all of this. :)

 

Anyway, I definitely agree with most of the books that Midget recommended, aha! PJO/HOO fan here, as well as Trials of Apollo... That was a good series. :embarassed:

I also suggest more Alice Oseman books!! I'm getting a few once school is over (I'm trying not to get too many books before school ends cause I am getting way too busy for my own good and knowing myself, I can very easily turn a blind eye) so after that dumpster fire is over, I'd be happy to go into depth for some more book recommendations!! ;D 

 

I can't really think of any more book inputs... I literally just went, "Rick Riordan and Alice Oseman? chefs kiss"

(But yeah, I do agree with the fact that Heartstopper!! Has fulfilled my soul!! Jesus christ, Alice!!! :heartbeat: :lovestruck:



#36 midget7

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 03:57 PM

I'm sorry that I started such a conflict! I'm fine with percy's hair since they got him so spot on anyway. And Grover, he isn't that much of a main character (No hate plz!), I don't remember seeing him THAT explained in the book. At least not as much as Annabeth was. it was always mentioned when annabeth was there what she looked like and I'm sorry that my opinion has made so much problems! I feel bad because I have caused a debate in what was supposed to be a book reviewing topic! Sorry hippo! I hope we can all move past this and just keep our opinions under wraps so that we might go on in peace! I'm also sorry to midget for any heart ache I might have caused! I'm a very hot-headed person and sometimes I can't hold my tongue (Not trying to make excuses for my actions)
Again, I am extremely sorry for all this!


Don’t apologise, you didn’t cause me any heartache dw! I’m sorry if my earlier posts came across as an argument, that wasn’t my intention. I just think it’s an interesting discussion, and I am very passionate about the series (if you couldn’t already tell xD). People are entitled to their opinions about the casting but I think we shouldn’t judge until we’ve seen their acting performances, since that’s why they were chosen in the first place! Anyway, I’m happy to meet another PJO fan, I hope you’re as excited about the tv show as I am ;D


I also suggest more Alice Oseman books!! I'm getting a few once school is over (I'm trying not to get too many books before school ends cause I am getting way too busy for my own good and knowing myself, I can very easily turn a blind eye) so after that dumpster fire is over, I'd be happy to go into depth for some more book recommendations!! ;D 
 
I can't really think of any more book inputs... I literally just went, "Rick Riordan and Alice Oseman? chefs kiss"
(But yeah, I do agree with the fact that Heartstopper!! Has fulfilled my soul!! Jesus christ, Alice!!! :heartbeat: :lovestruck:


YES Lilums Alice Oseman is my Queen xD do you have a favourite Alice Oseman book? (Heartstopper has fulfilled my soul too :’’) bring on S2&3!!)
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#37 Hamustars

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 07:48 PM

Don’t apologise, you didn’t cause me any heartache dw! I’m sorry if my earlier posts came across as an argument, that wasn’t my intention. I just think it’s an interesting discussion, and I am very passionate about the series (if you couldn’t already tell xD). People are entitled to their opinions about the casting but I think we shouldn’t judge until we’ve seen their acting performances, since that’s why they were chosen in the first place! Anyway, I’m happy to meet another PJO fan, I hope you’re as excited about the tv show as I am ;D



YES Lilums Alice Oseman is my Queen xD do you have a favourite Alice Oseman book? (Heartstopper has fulfilled my soul too :’’) bring on S2&3!!)

OH BABY I CAN'T WAIT! I just want to see CLARISSE! She was always my fav and she was really bad in the movies! well everyone was but we don't talk about the movies. the annabeth was good except that she was 15 and annabeth in that movie was 12! But I liked all the actors and actresses! (Persephone tho....She can die with the movie XD I didn't like how they made her like a freakin' Victoria's Secret model! LIKE WHAT?! I thought she was really bashful and didn't like to talk, and here she is...flirting with grover. GROVER! lol)



#38 Kikya

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 09:14 PM

I’m assuming you haven’t read the books? Because otherwise you would know that the characters being children of Greek Gods has no bearing on their race whatsoever. Hazel Levesque is Black. Frank Zhang is Chinese. Piper McLean is Native American. Leo Valdez is Latino. Also, Greek is a nationality, not a race. Unless you’re talking about the ethnic group of Ancient Greeks, and even then, this story is set in the modern day so I don’t think that’s particularly relevant here.

I agree that sometimes you can’t change the race of a character without changing everything about their background. This is the case when the character’s race and culture are integral to their storyline. To use your example, Black Panther, and the nation of Wakanda, are heavily inspired by African culture. So of course you couldn’t replace an actor with a white person without it being racist and frankly, really weird.

On the other hand, Annabeth’s storyline doesn’t really have anything to do with her race. Yes, she’s described as white in the books. Does that ever have any effect on the character decisions she makes? No. So having her be played by a Black actress doesn’t change anything from a character perspective. Superficially, she’ll look different. Some people won’t be a fan of that, which I understand.

But I don’t understand why people have a problem specifically with Annabeth’s casting, but are fine with the fact that Percy’s actor doesn’t have dark hair? Or that Grover’s actor is South Asian when he was described as ginger in the books.

If you are willing to have an open mind about this, I urge you to read the Rick Riordan’s blog post (linked in my last post) because he explains it better than I ever could. He was the creator of the series, and if anyone should get to decide who plays his characters, it’s him.

(Also sorry hippo for derailing the topic!)

So young black women can only look up to/be inspired are people that superficially look like them??

 

I find most of the people that I most of the people that I admire and enjoy the most in stories are people that are nothing like me.

 

For example, in the Hunger Games, Cinna is one of my favorite characters. He's passionate and artistic, clever and funny. Superficially, he looks nothing like me and is a man. But I would VERY annoyed if they turned his character into someone who did look like me, because I would be like "That's not the character I know!" His skin color really has nothing to do with his story yet it would still be ridiculous to do that. Same with a character like Bladerunner, if they turned him into a hispanic or asian or anything else, people would be very upset. You don't create diversity by stealing other characters, you do it by creating your own.

 

This bizarre idea that someone has to look like you in order to be relatable to you is super shallow and tries to boil people down in simplistic terms.

 

and lets say for argument's sake that this TV show inspires this young black girl to read the source material. If her only connection to the character is the fact that she's also a young black girl, she's going to be extremely disappointed. That no, in fact, the character wasn't even black and someone basically hijacked the character. How do you think she's going to feel?

 

If what someone looked like mattered that much to me, I would MUCH rather have characters that were uniquely my own instead of appropriating other characters.

 

and no one should apologize for stating their opinions, Hamustars. You did nothing wrong.

 

I feel like other than very essential changes that are needed to convert books to movies/tv shows, people shouldn't mess with a good story/good characters. I always hate when people make unnecessary changes to the books. Just leave it alone!


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#39 Hamustars

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 09:44 PM

So young black women can only look up to/be inspired are people that superficially look like them??

 

I find most of the people that I most of the people that I admire and enjoy the most in stories are people that are nothing like me.

 

For example, in the Hunger Games, Cinna is one of my favorite characters. He's passionate and artistic, clever and funny. Superficially, he looks nothing like me and is a man. But I would VERY annoyed if they turned his character into someone who did look like me, because I would be like "That's not the character I know!" His skin color really has nothing to do with his story yet it would still be ridiculous to do that. Same with a character like Bladerunner, if they turned him into a hispanic or asian or anything else, people would be very upset. You don't create diversity by stealing other characters, you do it by creating your own.

 

This bizarre idea that someone has to look like you in order to be relatable to you is super shallow and tries to boil people down in simplistic terms.

 

and lets say for argument's sake that this TV show inspires this young black girl to read the source material. If her only connection to the character is the fact that she's also a young black girl, she's going to be extremely disappointed. That no, in fact, the character wasn't even black and someone basically hijacked the character. How do you think she's going to feel?

 

If what someone looked like mattered that much to me, I would MUCH rather have characters that were uniquely my own instead of appropriating other characters.

 

and no one should apologize for stating their opinions, Hamustars. You did nothing wrong.

 

I feel like other than very essential changes that are needed to convert books to movies/tv shows, people shouldn't mess with a good story/good characters. I always hate when people make unnecessary changes to the books. Just leave it alone!

I agree. If it does inspire a little black girl it should be because Annabeth is a strong, smart, independent girl, not because of the color of her skin. And it isn't like everyone in the book series is white! We don't need to make the changes because it has everything! It has different skin tones, lgbtq+, probably some trans too! We already have everything and it makes me upset when Uncle Rick acts like he is a white guy who only writes white people (say that 5 times fast geez). If it ain't broke don't fix it! Or at least, don't try to fix it. Annabeth always inspired me and that isn't because she is a white skinned, blonde hair girl. It was because I was inspired by her quick thinking and her relationship with others. That isn't based on the fact that she is black or white. If I was a little black girl and I watched the show I would probably feel like they changed her skin tone to make her more relatable to me, like I'm not smart, cute, funny and strong, like they had to change her to make her relatable to me. Then I would probably hate the show just as much. But if she was white and I wasn't I would feel like, hey, this girl isn't the same color as me but I relate to her personality, which is the only thing that matters! If the little black girls of the world only relate to Annabeth because of her skin tone then we have gotten no where. There is no reason to even change her because the little girls don't want to look up to her. They would probably be a little embarrassed. Like Uncle Rick went out of his way to make sure they feel included, and caused the strong fandom to fight back (because we are persassy). I just hope they don't change anyone else.

 

And along with what whats-her-face said, if Leah can make me believe she is Annabeth then I have no problem with it. But she needs to take the role and read the books. And watch the movies so she knows what not to do lol.

 

And percy, it's just hair! Maybe they'll dye it or have a wig. If they don't. I'm fine with it, he's a really good actor and I think he can really sell me on percy. But I haven't seen any movies with Leah so I don't know her acting style.

 

and Grover, he doesn't look EXACTLY like I imagined sure, but he is the best friend of percy and really doesn't pop up as much later into the series. I like the actor who plays him and I think he'll be able to be grover and make it believable!


Edited by Hamustars, 27 May 2022 - 09:47 PM.

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#40 midget7

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Posted 27 May 2022 - 11:59 PM

 

 

 

"So young black women can only look up to/be inspired are people that superficially look like them??"

 

You're putting words in my mouth here. I specifically said: "Having a Black Annabeth is going to be so inspiring to so many young Black girls out there and that, in my opinion, can ony be a positive thing." I never said that you can only be inspired by someone of the same race as you. I don't agree with that at all. You can be inspired by anyone of any background. But when you have been deprived of on-screen representation your entire life, having someone in a TV show who looks like you means more than you know.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe you're caucasion? Western media has always been dominated by white people, so you probably can't relate to what it's like to not have racial representation. For me, growing up as Asian in the UK, I rarely saw Asians on screen. (Take your example of the Hunger Games - can you name me a single Asian character in the whole series? Because I can't.) If by some small chance there were Asians, they would usually be the stereotypical "ugly" nerdy side characters and the butt of the joke. They would rarely be fully developed, three-dimensional characters who I could look up to. The same goes for pretty much every ethnic minority out there. Imagine seeing story after story in the media where the one token person of your race is pushed to the sidelines and is nothing more than a raging stereotype. You see it enough times, and you start to believe that's all you're going to amount to. 

 

This quote from Awkwafina hits the nail on the head for me: "That is the power of representation: you don't realize how important it is until you realize you have been missing it your whole life"

 

Can you think of a story featuring a strong, brave and clever young heroine who's white? I don't need to look any further than your post to find an example: The Hunger Games. Now, can you think of a story featuring a strong, brave and clever yoing heroine who's Black? Harder, right? Most of the examples will be stories specifically written for Black characters, like The Hate U Give. But the majority of stories which don't centre on race won't bother with a poc main character.

 

This is why it's so important and so meaningful that Rick Riordan's cast two actors of colour in the PJO trio.

 

I think Hippophile sums it up really well:

 

 

But to me, the whole having an issue with the casting of Annabeth as black is a little ridiculous. It doesn't change her storyline, like you said, and it's always nice to be more inclusive to other races, imo. In a world with a lot of TV being dominated by a largely white cast of characters, if not all white, I have no problem seeing characters being taken on by actors/actresses who can do it justice. 

 

 

I find it interesting you used Cinna as an example, because he was never specified as Black in the books. When a Black actor was cast, many (racist) people were unhappy about it. But the actor did a fantastic performance and, as you said yourself, it's now hard to imagine Cinna as anything other than a Black. This only goes to solidify my point that Black actors can 100% do roles justice that weren't originally written for them.

 

 

 

You don't create diversity by stealing other characters, you do it by creating your own.

 

Rick Riordan created the character of Annabeth so I don't see how he could have "stolen" it?

 

"and lets say for argument's sake that this TV show inspires this young black girl to read the source material. If her only connection to the character is the fact that she's also a young black girl, she's going to be extremely disappointed. That no, in fact, the character wasn't even black and someone basically hijacked the character. How do you think she's going to feel?"

 

- Let me explain why I disagree with this. I watched Shadow and Bone, a TV series with a half-Asian actress playing the main character, even though she was described as white in the books. I then read the books, and continued picturing her as half-Asian, because that's the beauty of books - so much of it is left to your imagination. I didn't feel like the books had been hijacked. If anything, I felt grateful that the casting director had taken a chance on an amazing Asian actress who truly enhanced the character and gave her a lot more depth (as the racial aspect added more layer to her backstory of being shunned and feeling like an outsider), which carried over to my reading experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right that Rick's later books (Heroes of Olympus onwards) have great character diversity, but this TV show is an adaptation of the initial Percy Jackson series, where the characters are predominantly white. So it makes sense Rick would want to add more diversity for this adaptation.

 

"Annabeth always inspired me and that isn't because she is a white skinned, blonde hair girl. It was because I was inspired by her quick thinking and her relationship with others. That isn't based on the fact that she is black or white."

 

- ok, so if you are inspired by Annabeth regardless of her appearance, it shouldn't be too much of an issue that she's going to have brown hair and dark skin instead of blonde hair and light skin, right?

 

" If I was a little black girl and I watched the show I would probably feel like they changed her skin tone to make her more relatable to me, like I'm not smart, cute, funny and strong, like they had to change her to make her relatable to me. if she was white and I wasn't I would feel like, hey, this girl isn't the same color as me but I relate to her personality, which is the only thing that matters!"

 

- This is funny, because it's exactly what people of colour have had to do their entire lives. We've had to find ways to relate to characters with completely different cultural backgrounds and appearances as us, because we have no other option. We don't see ourselves depicted in the media nearly as much as white people. And why might you think a Black girl would watch the PJO series and think they cast a Black Annabeth purely because of diversity points and not because a Black girl could actually be smart, funny and strong? Because society has led her to think that way. It's led her to believe that a heroine like Annabeth could never be Black just because. 

 

 

"along with what whats-her-face said" - if you want to have a respectful discussion, I'd appreciate if you could take the 2 seconds to scroll up and see what my usename is rather than calling me "whats-her-face" :)

 

"And percy, it's just hair! Maybe they'll dye it or have a wig. If they don't. I'm fine with it, he's a really good actor and I think he can really sell me on percy. But I haven't seen any movies with Leah so I don't know her acting style."

 

- So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you are fine with Percy's appearance is different because you've seen the actor's work already and you know he can pull it off. But you haven't seen any of Leah's work yet, so you are judging her ability to play Annabeth on no basis except her appearance?

 

Honestly, I'm tired of seeing backlash against Leah Jeffries. She's literally a 12 year old and doesn't deserve any of it.

 

Anyway, sorry if any of this reads as argumentative, that wasn't my intention. I just want to get my point across :)


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#41 Kikya

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 12:42 AM

You're putting words in my mouth here. I specifically said: "Having a Black Annabeth is going to be so inspiring to so many young Black girls out there and that, in my opinion, can ony be a positive thing." I never said that you can only be inspired by someone of the same race as you. I don't agree with that at all. You can be inspired by anyone of any background. But when you have been deprived of on-screen representation your entire life, having someone in a TV show who looks like you means more than you know.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe you're caucasion? Western media has always been dominated by white people, so you probably can't relate to what it's like to not have racial representation. For me, growing up as Asian in the UK, I rarely saw Asians on screen. (Take your example of the Hunger Games - can you name me a single Asian character in the whole series? Because I can't.) If by some small chance there were Asians, they would usually be the stereotypical "ugly" nerdy side characters and the butt of the joke. They would rarely be fully developed, three-dimensional characters who I could look up to. The same goes for pretty much every ethnic minority out there. Imagine seeing story after story in the media where the one token person of your race is pushed to the sidelines and is nothing more than a raging stereotype. You see it enough times, and you start to believe that's all you're going to amount to. 

 

This quote from Awkwafina hits the nail on the head for me: "That is the power of representation: you don't realize how important it is until you realize you have been missing it your whole life"

I think you are unusually obsessed with skin color. When did I say Cinna was black? I said he looks very different than me. If they turned him into a woman who looked like me to make him more relatable that would be weird. The fact that you assumed that race is what I was speaking of is weird. Maybe take a second and ask yourself, why? Also, I never watched the Hunger Game movies, because I prefer books over movies.

 

Also, western media is not the only media out there. Perhaps you should branch out and maybe you won't feel like that's all there is out there. I watch all kinds of movies, Korean dramas, Kung Fu movies, French films, German films, Bollywood films (all with subtitles if possible, cause I prefer to hear it in the native inflection) Do I enjoy those movies less because they don't look like me? No, I don't. In fact, it enhances the experience. I don't get upset that there aren't enough people that look like me in them.

 

Your skin color is one very tiny aspect of you, as far as I am concerned the least important part. Don't let it become the only thing about you. Who you are as a person makes much more of impact on people than what you look like.

 

Again, I'm all about keeping the integrity of the books. If there is a vivid description of the person in the book, then that is who/what the character is. If it isn't specified, or vaguely described then as far as I am concerned, it can be whatever the imagination dreams up.


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Posted 28 May 2022 - 12:44 AM


removed for personal reasons


Edited by top tier hippo, 16 August 2022 - 02:41 AM.

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#43 Hamustars

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 02:47 AM

You're putting words in my mouth here. I specifically said: "Having a Black Annabeth is going to be so inspiring to so many young Black girls out there and that, in my opinion, can ony be a positive thing." I never said that you can only be inspired by someone of the same race as you. I don't agree with that at all. You can be inspired by anyone of any background. But when you have been deprived of on-screen representation your entire life, having someone in a TV show who looks like you means more than you know.

 

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe you're caucasion? Western media has always been dominated by white people, so you probably can't relate to what it's like to not have racial representation. For me, growing up as Asian in the UK, I rarely saw Asians on screen. (Take your example of the Hunger Games - can you name me a single Asian character in the whole series? Because I can't.) If by some small chance there were Asians, they would usually be the stereotypical "ugly" nerdy side characters and the butt of the joke. They would rarely be fully developed, three-dimensional characters who I could look up to. The same goes for pretty much every ethnic minority out there. Imagine seeing story after story in the media where the one token person of your race is pushed to the sidelines and is nothing more than a raging stereotype. You see it enough times, and you start to believe that's all you're going to amount to. 

 

This quote from Awkwafina hits the nail on the head for me: "That is the power of representation: you don't realize how important it is until you realize you have been missing it your whole life"

 

Can you think of a story featuring a strong, brave and clever young heroine who's white? I don't need to look any further than your post to find an example: The Hunger Games. Now, can you think of a story featuring a strong, brave and clever yoing heroine who's Black? Harder, right? Most of the examples will be stories specifically written for Black characters, like The Hate U Give. But the majority of stories which don't centre on race won't bother with a poc main character.

 

This is why it's so important and so meaningful that Rick Riordan's cast two actors of colour in the PJO trio.

 

I think Hippophile sums it up really well:

 

 

I find it interesting you used Cinna as an example, because he was never specified as Black in the books. When a Black actor was cast, many (racist) people were unhappy about it. But the actor did a fantastic performance and, as you said yourself, it's now hard to imagine Cinna as anything other than a Black. This only goes to solidify my point that Black actors can 100% do roles justice that weren't originally written for them.

 

 

Rick Riordan created the character of Annabeth so I don't see how he could have "stolen" it?

 

"and lets say for argument's sake that this TV show inspires this young black girl to read the source material. If her only connection to the character is the fact that she's also a young black girl, she's going to be extremely disappointed. That no, in fact, the character wasn't even black and someone basically hijacked the character. How do you think she's going to feel?"

 

- Let me explain why I disagree with this. I watched Shadow and Bone, a TV series with a half-Asian actress playing the main character, even though she was described as white in the books. I then read the books, and continued picturing her as half-Asian, because that's the beauty of books - so much of it is left to your imagination. I didn't feel like the books had been hijacked. If anything, I felt grateful that the casting director had taken a chance on an amazing Asian actress who truly enhanced the character and gave her a lot more depth (as the racial aspect added more layer to her backstory of being shunned and feeling like an outsider), which carried over to my reading experience.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You're right that Rick's later books (Heroes of Olympus onwards) have great character diversity, but this TV show is an adaptation of the initial Percy Jackson series, where the characters are predominantly white. So it makes sense Rick would want to add more diversity for this adaptation.

 

"Annabeth always inspired me and that isn't because she is a white skinned, blonde hair girl. It was because I was inspired by her quick thinking and her relationship with others. That isn't based on the fact that she is black or white."

 

- ok, so if you are inspired by Annabeth regardless of her appearance, it shouldn't be too much of an issue that she's going to have brown hair and dark skin instead of blonde hair and light skin, right?

 

" If I was a little black girl and I watched the show I would probably feel like they changed her skin tone to make her more relatable to me, like I'm not smart, cute, funny and strong, like they had to change her to make her relatable to me. if she was white and I wasn't I would feel like, hey, this girl isn't the same color as me but I relate to her personality, which is the only thing that matters!"

 

- This is funny, because it's exactly what people of colour have had to do their entire lives. We've had to find ways to relate to characters with completely different cultural backgrounds and appearances as us, because we have no other option. We don't see ourselves depicted in the media nearly as much as white people. And why might you think a Black girl would watch the PJO series and think they cast a Black Annabeth purely because of diversity points and not because a Black girl could actually be smart, funny and strong? Because society has led her to think that way. It's led her to believe that a heroine like Annabeth could never be Black just because. 

 

 

"along with what whats-her-face said" - if you want to have a respectful discussion, I'd appreciate if you could take the 2 seconds to scroll up and see what my usename is rather than calling me "whats-her-face" :)

 

"And percy, it's just hair! Maybe they'll dye it or have a wig. If they don't. I'm fine with it, he's a really good actor and I think he can really sell me on percy. But I haven't seen any movies with Leah so I don't know her acting style."

 

- So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you are fine with Percy's appearance is different because you've seen the actor's work already and you know he can pull it off. But you haven't seen any of Leah's work yet, so you are judging her ability to play Annabeth on no basis except her appearance?

 

Honestly, I'm tired of seeing backlash against Leah Jeffries. She's literally a 12 year old and doesn't deserve any of it.

 

Anyway, sorry if any of this reads as argumentative, that wasn't my intention. I just want to get my point across :)

You're right that Rick's later books (Heroes of Olympus onwards) have great character diversity, but this TV show is an adaptation of the initial Percy Jackson series, where the characters are predominantly white. So it makes sense Rick would want to add more diversity for this adaptation.

 

Then why not make Annabth black in the book series to begin with? He wrote it to be one way and now he is back tracking on his own pride and joy?

 

"Annabeth always inspired me and that isn't because she is a white skinned, blonde hair girl. It was because I was inspired by her quick thinking and her relationship with others. That isn't based on the fact that she is black or white."

 

- ok, so if you are inspired by Annabeth regardless of her appearance, it shouldn't be too much of an issue that she's going to have brown hair and dark skin instead of blonde hair and light skin, right?

I agree, but she also was described in the books. Blonde hair, Gray eyes. Are they going to give Leah that? I'm not arguing the fact that I hate her casting, I'm saying it's frustrating

 

" If I was a little black girl and I watched the show I would probably feel like they changed her skin tone to make her more relatable to me, like I'm not smart, cute, funny and strong, like they had to change her to make her relatable to me. if she was white and I wasn't I would feel like, hey, this girl isn't the same color as me but I relate to her personality, which is the only thing that matters!"

 

- This is funny, because it's exactly what people of colour have had to do their entire lives. We've had to find ways to relate to characters with completely different cultural backgrounds and appearances as us, because we have no other option. We don't see ourselves depicted in the media nearly as much as white people. And why might you think a Black girl would watch the PJO series and think they cast a Black Annabeth purely because of diversity points and not because a Black girl could actually be smart, funny and strong? Because society has led her to think that way. It's led her to believe that a heroine like Annabeth could never be Black just because. 

 

I am NOT saying that "And why might you think a Black girl would watch the PJO series and think they cast a Black Annabeth purely because of diversity points and not because a Black girl could actually be smart, funny and strong?"

 

I am also not saying this "It's led her to believe that a heroine like Annabeth could never be Black just because."

I am simply saying, I'm not white either! I don't see much Filipino/White kids played on tv, but I wouldn't want them to change Annabeth (My favorite after Leo) from what she is to what she isn't. The kids of these days are growing up being fed that "black lives matter" so treat them the same way you treat whites! If Uncle Rick wanted diverse color's in PJO why didn't he make Annabeth black in the books? Why change it after everyone fell in love with annabeth?

 

 

"along with what whats-her-face said" - if you want to have a respectful discussion, I'd appreciate if you could take the 2 seconds to scroll up and see what my usename is rather than calling me "whats-her-face" :)

 

Sorry, it was meant as a joke :) I was calling hippo a "whats-her-face" because we are friends and I feel ok to joke around with her. I will, from now on make sure not to joke with my friends with out putting a disclaimer.

And I tried to say I didn't want to have this discussion, what happened to my "I hope we can all move past this and just keep our opinions under wraps so that we might go on in peace!" I am a 14 year old girl and don't know all the facts and I am sorry. I was hoping to just drop this and continue on with my opinions kept to myself, especially because it has turned into this

 

"And percy, it's just hair! Maybe they'll dye it or have a wig. If they don't. I'm fine with it, he's a really good actor and I think he can really sell me on percy. But I haven't seen any movies with Leah so I don't know her acting style."

 

- So, if I'm hearing you correctly, you are fine with Percy's appearance is different because you've seen the actor's work already and you know he can pull it off. But you haven't seen any of Leah's work yet, so you are judging her ability to play Annabeth on no basis except her appearance?

You are not hearing me correctly. I am not "judging" her. Percy looks exactly like he is told in the books. Annabeth looks nothing like how she is in the books. Or, even on Rick's covers on the books.

 

Honestly, I'm tired of seeing backlash against Leah Jeffries. She's literally a 12 year old and doesn't deserve any of it.

I hold NOTHING against the actress. I agree, she deserves none of this. But I am not hating on her. I am not hating on anything. I was expressing my sadness that they changed the series that was supposed to be "We're doing it right this time! We're following the books to a T!" And they are already changing things.

 

Anyway, sorry if any of this reads as argumentative, that wasn't my intention. I just want to get my point across :)

 

I'm sorry too. If this also seems rude it wasn't my intention. But this will also be the last time I post about this. I would like to continue on HH with nothing but happiness and joy, not "debating" or "arguing" with any more people. I wish all of you the best!

~Hamustars/Harlow

 

(and please don't twist a teenage girls words against herself, I still have respect for you. ( the teenage girl being me :)
 


Edited by Hamustars, 28 May 2022 - 02:53 AM.


#44 top tier hippo

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 03:21 AM

 

 

"along with what whats-her-face said" - if you want to have a respectful discussion, I'd appreciate if you could take the 2 seconds to scroll up and see what my usename is rather than calling me "whats-her-face" :)

 

Sorry, it was meant as a joke :) I was calling hippo a "whats-her-face" because we are friends and I feel ok to joke around with her. I will, from now on make sure not to joke with my friends with out putting a disclaimer.

I think it was just unclear, haha. I'm okay with people joking around with me and whatnot, I think it was just a case of everyone thinking you were directing it at someone else. Maybe next time just make sure everyone can see it's directed at me haha. 

 

I get lots of joke-hate on HH. Mockery and whatnot. It's part of my vibe, apparently. Makes me feel loved  :valentine:  :valentine:

 

Although I do wonder if someone really disliked me if I would be able to tell...


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#45 midget7

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Posted 28 May 2022 - 03:23 AM

 

 

I care deeply about racial issues because I have been affected by them my entire life. The lack of media representation is just a small one of them. Saying that I am "unusually obsessed with skin colour" is incredibly minimising. Race and skin colour are not the same thing.

 

I apologise for assuming you were talking about Cinna being Black. I assumed you were using this as an example to discuss the backlash against Leah Jeffries' casting, which is a racial issue. If the issue was purely based on aesthetics, Percy's actor would be getting the same amount of backlash as Annabeth's because neither look like how the characters were described in the books. But everyone is singing praises for the white actor, and hating on the Black actress (not trying to call out you or Hamustars here, I'm referring to the general reaction from the fans). Whether this is subconscious or not, it is still racial prejudice. 

 

I am aware that media exists outside of Western media (and yes, I do watch foreign films). But, if you are living in a Western country, it is a privilege to be able to access it. When I was growing up, I only had access to terrestrial TV. We didn't have streaming services. I watched whatever was broadcasted, which was media featuring predominantly white people. This will be the case for many children, who only have access to what is easily available. PJO will be on Disney+ which is a widely used streaming service, so will reach a huge audience. Having diverse casting will make young people from all around the world feel seen and represented. (And will also show them that yes, they can make it as an actor regardless of what they look like!)

 

I don't get upset if I see a piece of media that does not feature anyone who looks like me. I've grown up with this kind of media and many of my favourite films from childhood have an all-white or mostly white cast. But I think it's important that more effort is being made now to be inclusive. It's such a positive step forward, and I think it's a shame when fans have a problem with it  :sweatdrop:

 

"Your skin color is one very tiny aspect of you, as far as I am concerned the least important part. Don't let it become the only thing about you. Who you are as a person makes much more of impact on people than what you look like." - Again, I'm talking about race, not skin colour. Race is a huge part of my identity, from my family customs, to the food I eat, to the language I speak at home. It's much more than just my skintone.

 

I won't get into this now, but here is an interesting article that discusses the problematic nature of "colour-blindness": https://ideas.ted.com/why-saying-i-dont-see-race-at-all-just-makes-racism-worse/

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honestly, the thing that annoys me way more is age. Don't age characters up 3+ years because you want to cast older actors and actresses. I want the ages of the characters to remain consistent, especially since in a lot of media that involves young adults, age is a factor that actually affects the stories sometimes. The color of the skin of a character doesn't change the story unless the story revolves, at least partially, around prejudice, I've found. 

 

 

Couldn't agree with this more, Hippo! Also, the age thing annoys me too xD So tired of child and teenage characters being played by twenty-something year olds haha.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry if I've upset you Hamustars... I missed your earlier post about not wanting to continue the discussion. I understand your disappointment at Annabeth not looking exactly like she was described in the books, and I'm glad that you have an open mind about the actress despite that <3 Many of my points I've made earlier weren't directed at you, but rather the general reaction from the fans (some of whom have been really nasty unfortunately). Like I said, I am very defensive about Leah's casting so sometimes can get a little too pushy/earnest about it haha. Hopefully we can move on and just fangirl over PJO like Uncle Rick intended ;) :hug:

 

 

 

I think it was just unclear, haha. I'm okay with people joking around with me and whatnot, I think it was just a case of everyone thinking you were directing it at someone else. Maybe next time just make sure everyone can see it's directed at me haha. 

 

I get lots of joke-hate on HH. Mockery and whatnot. It's part of my vibe, apparently. Makes me feel loved  :valentine:  :valentine:

 

Although I do wonder if someone really disliked me if I would be able to tell...

 

Ahh ok!! I assumed that was me lol. No hard feelings either way :)


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